Shirley Williams

Yes indeed. I think she is one of the few politicians that we can trust
and admire. I wish her a happy retirement after her long career.

I hadn't heard that Alea .

I agree Shirley Williams was a respected politician . A personal opinion obviously but I always thought of her style of politics was to my preference , she wasn't afraid to speak her mind but not follow the party rhetoric/spin if it did not sit well with her.

She may have retired from the House of Lords but no doubt politics will be in her blood forever . I wish there were more like Shirley Williams it didn't matter if you voted for her party or not , you always listened and took away the parts of her argument that made sense, as you should .

I wish her well. One of those politicians who transcended party politics.

Shirley Williams addressed a big rally in the early days of the SDP. I have a picture of me shaking hands with her which I prize. She held her audience in the palm of her hands, speaking without notes for a good hour. She always spoke good sense on Question Time, was respected by politicians of all parties, a woman of great integrity who will be missed from the political scene. Could we have her for a web chat, please? She is a grandmother after all.

I met Shirley Williams at a local SDP meeting and found her to be very warm and friendly. She is a real conviction politician but didn't hector just spoke an awful lot of sense.

I entirely agree with all the previous posters. I wish there were more politicians like her.

What a wise and intelligent woman. So sensible to retire rather than to rake in the expenses.

Good for her.

Ah, the saintly Shirley - I don't know if we need more politicians like her

The instigator of Comprehensive schools who ensured her own daughter didn't attend one!

Oh riverwalk - I do find that a really tired accusation. We all, whoever we are, as parents choose what is right for our children in the place that we find ourselves, depending on what is available there. I have never blamed any politician for doing that.

Indeed we do choose what's right for our children - mine went to Public school, but I wasn't an MP and later Secretary of State for Education!

Trying to change the public education system to a better one than it was, which is what Williams and others tried to do (whether one agreed with their policy is not the issue here) is good.

Sending one's own kids to a private school because it was the best available at the time (i.e. in the 'bad' or unfair system one was trying to improve for everyone), is not acting against one's principles. A lot of people don't seem to understand that. It's possible, at the same time as wanting to improve the public school system, not to object to private schools for those who choose them for whatever reason. Private schools are not automatically better than public schools but they may be a good option for very public figures who want to protect their kids' privacy (for instance; I think Harold Wilson did the same for that reason when he was PM).

Enjoy your retirement from the HoL, Shirley. All round good bloke (so to speak).

hear hear bags- our went to excellent comprehensives- had none been available, we would have not put our principles before our children- but continued to fight for a better system for all.

That term 'public school' is soooo misleading, and I believe used in the 'opposite sense' by Riverwalk and bags. Public Schools are the least 'public' of all in the UK (as compared to State Schools).

Yes, I was confused by the term as used in those posts - a public school is a private fee-paying secondary school.

Although of course Riverwalk could have meant exactly that.

I was thinking of posting to ask whether Riverwalk meant a private public school or a public public school. To me a public school is one of the famous expensive private boarding schools, and the schools that everyone goes to who doesn't pay fees are local authority or state schools.

Shirley William's daughter attended Godolphin and Latymer girls Voluntry Aided grammar school, in Hammersmith. It was not fee paying, but girls had to pass the 11+ and an entrance exam, in order to attend. As some of my friends did.

The School only became an independent fee paying school in the 70s,
when such schools could make the choice.

X

Maybe some of the confusion is because thatbags is based in Scotland (sorry, thatbags, I know you're perfectly capable of speaking for yourself, and I hope I'm not speaking out of turn) and in this country a public school is run by the council and a fee-paying school, day or boarding, is a private school. Some of my DGCs go to schools in the east end of Glasgow where "XX PUBLIC SCHOOL" is carved into the stone of the building, and while they are good schools, they could not be confused with Eton.

I agree with those who have been praising Shirley Williams; a great politician, if that's not an oxymoron

But Eton, Harrow etc are all referred to as public schools. Lesser fee paying ones are private schools and non fee paying ones are state schools. That's not just a Scottish understanding. It may be that some school in Glasgow had 'public' school carved into it in the 19th century but that's a local understanding not the current one.

In the 19C state public education was a new thing, so schoold proudly displayed the name.

Well before that time, the establishments which now provide the "public school boys" who make up most of the cabinet, and which educate the scions of the aristocracy and the "county" were mostly founded originally by philanthropic benefactors who intended them to educate the general public. The founders would probably be horrified at the amount of privilege that they now represent.

Oh an amazing woman. She is sharply intelligent, with a good sense of humour and as Kitty L says she talks sense.

I was using the American terminology because I think it's less confusing. Well... I used to think so before it hit Gransnet . I should, of course, have made that clear. Grovel, grovel.

wheniwas is quite right that Scottish schools can be confusing though. I grew up in England but went to uni in Scotland. When I told my parents that my boyfriend had been to xxx Acadamy, my dad assumed this was not a state (public in the American sense) but he was wrong. State secondary schools are often called academies in Scotland and private schools are often called simply High School. Blether, blether.

Yes, Eton and Harrow and similar were called public schools originally because they were for the sons of poor clergy who couldn't afford private tutors.

Sorry to be picky, Jane10, but it's not just "some school in Glasgow" that had "XX PUBLIC SCHOOL" carved on; it was a common thing and not just in Glasgow, although some of them have since, in the way of these things, been replaced by modern buildings. When schools became comprehensive, many in Scotland but not, I understand, in England, kept their names and so we have High Schools, Academies and Grammar Schools which are all likely to be comprehensives.