Cameron's Christmas message

He is the master of sound bites - the hard working man - this is a country of Christian values etc, he was in P R

Thanks for the link JessM Very interesting, but not totally unexpected. How Dave and his mates have managed to convince anyone that they are interested in anything apart from money and power I don't know. I suppose speeches about "Christian values" are part of it. Just hope the saying about fooling people is true and they don't manage to "fool all of the people all of the time" and enough people realise what they are doing in time.

They are Christian values because they are the teachings of Christ . How is it possible to accept the teachings of a man if one does not believe the man existed?

That's a scary article, JessM.

Here's another one, which backs it up.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/12/17/the-bad-news-ministers-tried-to-bury-today
That was before Dave's Christmas message.

On 'Christian values', mostly not exclusive to Christians.

From Wikipedia:
The eight Beatitudes in Matthew 5:3–12 during the Sermon on the Mount.[4][5]

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven. (5:3)
Blessed are those who mourn: for they will be comforted. (5:4)
Blessed are the meek: for they will inherit the earth. (5:5)
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness: for they will be filled. (5:6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they will be shown mercy. (5:7)
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they will see God. (5:8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God. (5:9)
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (5:10)
In verses 5:11-12, the eight Beatitudes are followed by what is often viewed as a commentary—a further clarification of the eighth one with specific application being made to the disciples. Instead of using the third-person plural "they", Jesus changes to second-person "you":[1]

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

As Andy Burnham wrote recently, the current government are not the reasonable humane conservative government that some think they voted for.
They are dangerous. He writes about their plans to manipulate the rules of democracy to keep themselves in power indefinitely. He concludes his article with the words

It is not a Conservative government; in the words of one of their former leaders, Disraeli, it is an “organised hypocrisy”.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2015/12/conservatives-are-rewriting-constitution-create-one-party-state

In fairness to bumbling Dave I don't think he is the brains behind this. Just a baby-faced front man. Not even bright enough for the Tory powers-that-be to risk a TV debate with Miliband.

Can you actually say what Christian Values Cameron personally shows or supports, gillybob, as the thread is about his speech to the nation?

Difficult things like lowering the tax rate for the very richest? Like allowing the banks to continue with their profligate lending which many experts are now warning can lead to a further crash - The I 22.12.15 "Fears of a new crash as household debt soars" - Office for Budget Responsibility.

Wise things like making such draconian cuts that young people with mental health problems whose services have been axed have to attend A&E instead of getting ongoing support from child and adolescent mental health services and out-of-hours help in a crisis?

I don't understand how making cuts in one area which will impact on another area, ultimately leading to greater expense and more damage to the country, its valued institutions and its citizens, demonstrates good leadership.

One of the possible reasons you missed out elegran is that when a party's roots and ideology lie in conserving a system of inequality and patronage it is hardly surprising that it receives the major part of its funding from hedge funds, large corporations and the super rich, whose interests it represents, rather than those of the majority of its citizens.

Come off it Anniebach you obviously don't know me at all.

Actually if you read my "question" again, I am inviting anyone to define what they consider to be Christian Values. Although I think you already knew that, didn't you ?

The people who have taken their own lives when forced to look for work but too ill to work. The rise in youngsters who are homeless because they csnnot have help to rent a room and cannot get a job because they are homeless . Those forced to work on zero hours contracts not knowing from one week to the next if they will earn enough to pay their rent . Families forced to live in houses which are not fit shelter for human beings . People evicted from private rents because their landlords have found tenants who can pay more. Police forces struggling because of cut backs. Doctors threatening to strike. Hospitals turning away women in labour because there are no beds for them. Increase in food banks , the list goes on , vulnerable people suffering whilst tax dodging by the wealthy is ignored

The things he does are the evidence of his real values. - "By their fruits (deeds) shall you know them"-Matthew 7.16
He can claim to have Christian values but it is the way he behaves that shows his real beliefs. The list of things that have damaged the poorest and the most vulnerable is extensive.

Jingle, do you buy your wooden spoons in bulk ?

ab that is a ridiculous smarmsie post. I've got a feeling gb?will see right through that rubbish.

Absolutely, Elegran. In fact I can think of at least one former PM who matches the description given in the first two paragraphs of your post.

Come to think if it, there is a very easy way for a politician/Prime Minister to gain popularity and approval. He/she could lower taxes, raise pensions and benefits, vote lots of money to all the things that give him/her a good standing as a philanthropist upholding Christian values and supporting his citizens to have the standard of living they would like to attain.

Then he/she could give up office and retire to a comfortable living on the after-dinner circuit and join the boards of all the companies who would be keen to have such a marvellous chap/chapess on their board, while his/her successor in the job (whether of his own party or another) would then have to do all the unpopular stuff that he/she had avoided, and become highly UNpopular for raising taxes again, cutting benefits, raising the interest on any kind of loans, putting in place curbs on public spending and services, making alcohol, cigarettes and any kind of fun too expensive for anyone to afford - and generally get a bad name.

There are two reasons why anyone would do things that make them appear more mingy than Scrooge, when they could look generous, open-handed and virtuous.

1) They are Satan incarnate and just enjoy being vicious (that theory has been expounded in the forums at length)
2) They feel it is worth being unpopular to do difficult things that they believe will prove of benefit to the country in the longer term.

Time will tell.

No apology need gillybob, just so unlike you to ask a question you didn't need an answer to

Yes Annibach I did. Silly me. Sorry for wasting your time.

Yes jings he is a lovely priest and a very nice man too. He said he loved my grandma very much and that she often "taught him a thing or two" (she was the oldest member of his congregation by miles) and you know what? I believe him.

You certainly don't have to be a practising christian to have christian values, in fact it can sometimes be an advantage. I've met some very rigid intransigent practising christians!!

Still nice of him to say it. Good priest that.

Then your had your answer before asking the question gillybob

I'm not so sure thoughAnniebach I had a conversation (I won't bore you with it ) with my late grandmas priest before her funeral. She was a devout catholic and I asked if I could speak in church at the funeral. I told the priest that I was not a Christian and he said "one does not need to be a practicing Christian to hold Christian values" and I understood totally what he meant.

Surely Christian values are following the teachings of Christ ,

I neither read nor listen to "addresses to the nation" from either the PM, the leader of the shadow cabinet or The queen. They all, in my opinion (and in equal measures) talk a load of hot air.

Agree with you there roses although reading some posts (on various threads) I do often wonder.

What defines Christian Value anyway? Giving personal riches to the poor? Taking in the homeless? Caring for the sick?

Well said, Eloethan. Hope you had a good Christmas.