Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

Since I don't know DC personally I don't know if he's a caring and supportive chap in the sense that I think you mean, pen, nor do I care because I don't think it's relevant here. What he has shown by this gesture of money for language lessons for people who are at least somewhat isolated by their lack of knowledge of the language of the country they live in (and they are; it is isolating not to be able to speak the language of the country where you live; been there, done that), what he has shown is that he cares about his country and how it and its people 'gel'. A common language is important. That's all there is to it. I think he's right to try and improve the commonality of the language.

Even someone who does not vote Conservative and who doesn't particularly like DC should be able to see the rationale behind what he has done even, again, if they don't think it's a good idea. One can appreciate the good intentions of someone even if one thinks they are misguided. What harm can this project do? and if it's not actually harmful, why complain except to be petty-mindedly partisan?

Well said Penstemmon

You may have missed my earlier post roses. I do think that people moving to a new country should integrate, and that includes learning the host language and the host country can support this by making newcomers feel warmly welcomed and not treat them as a bloody nuisance..which is what many newcomers experience! Hard to integrate with a community that does not want you.

Not back to Wales again!

Elegran, thank you for understanding I was not being racist. I was just explaining thst dismissing a persons mother tongue is very hurtful and uncalled for.

I would ask, if people are speaking in a language not understood by others how can it be said the listeners were being talked about.

Do you stop speaking in English if someone standing next to you doesn't speak English ? We are criticised if we do not stop a conversation in Welsh.

Why is it rude to speak Welsh in Wales if some cannot yet not rude to speak english in England it some cannot understand it ?

Can you not see how unjust it is to criticise others for things we do ourselves ?

Hmm...except that there's another four years to go until the next general election. I doubt whether this initiative will be remembered then, unless of course it's a spectacular success.

The government strategy of 'sowing seeds' of doubt to destabilise public confidence in various situations that are, imo, actually OK and then announce a bit of money to 'fix' something that was not really broken, then publish 'data' to show improvements is simply political manipulation.

Sledgehammer/nut etc = votes!

Of course, had St Jeremy suggested it.......?

So, the left wing view is that money for Muslim women to have English lessons is actually......... What exactly?Do tell?

Oh roses if only DC was that caring and supportive chap you think he is!

making this thread all about Wales is just a distraction from the ridiculous view that somehow Cameron is making an 'attack' on Muslim women, when actually encouraging and saying that Muslim women should be able to speak some English is a very sensible view.

Ana I believe that there are fewer Welsh and Scots in the UK than English. That would make them a minority in the UK. You seem to find it hard to accept that ab has been subjected to racist abuse. I don't know her but if she says she has why think otherwise? I promise you, you know when it happens!!

Have you ever encountered any 'racist' insults made by the English to Welsh-speakers, Jess, as alleged by ab?

I think those stories are apocryphal Elegran.
I have been living in very Welsh-speaking N Wales for nearly 3 years and I have never encountered this, not once, not ever. Neither have I encountered any personal hostility from people who might have assumed I was not Welsh.
Sometimes people will continue a conversation in Cymraeg, of course, if they are in mid flow. What are they supposed to do - guess you don't understand and instantly switch to English so that can listen in to their conversation? (It's their first language for goodness sake. ) Or are they somehow able to guess by looking at you that you don't speak Cymraeg and therefore cannot possibly understand the awful things they are saying about you?
Strangely, it is hard to tell who speaks Cymraeg and who does not just by looking at them, or even by hearing them speak English. I know several people who are not from the UK e.g German, Dutch etc, who are fluent Welsh speakers.
Often people do quickly switch out of politeness e.g. 3 men in a steam room in a hotel spa, talking about rugby, instantly changing to English when I said "hi" as I entered. Positively courteous.

I'm so pleased that some of you have picked up on the 'minority' label.
I thought that I had missed something with Annibachs heritage.
I don't feel so stupid now.

Which is the point I made earlier, Elegran - but apparently that's perfectly OK...

Minority group? All the Welsh? are you kidding? so are the Scots a minority group??
I have experienced hostile looks and remarks in Wales ( and also met some nice people there)but I don't tar all the Welsh with the same brush.
It's interesting isn't it, that those of a very left wing bent are all condemning this proposal of money to help Muslim women speak English.It speaks volumes I think.
All because a Conservative government announced it: there is simply no other way to look at it Imo.

Anniebqch is not being "racist" - but admittedly she does go on a bit about the way the Welsh language has been treated in the past.

AB - you speak perfect English. How did you - personally, not Welsh speakers in general - come to be abused because of your language?

And there is a balancing "abuse by language" - I have heard English visitors tell how they were ignored in shops in Wales, while the shopkeeper had long chats in Welsh to other customers, and others how they were clearly being talked about in a language they couldn't understand. I don't know how widespread this was, but it certainly wasn't nice.

A minority group?

The fact that Anniebach is from a minority group is more likely that she has been subjected to racism! If someone has suffered personal racist abuse it cuts to the quick and is not to be dismissed lightly or minimised.

I know people use racism now to refer to any abuse based on racial comments but originally it was about a power relationship with only the person /group with 'power' and in the majority who were being racially abusive that were considered the racists. Retaliation as a result of racism was not.

If you can't see why, then I'm sad for you.

Why is it unpleasant? A poster is showing us her true colours, nothing unpleasant, just the truth.

It seems strange to pick on one (age group & gender) of one group of our society who do not speak English well. The data taken from the census is based on a self assessed answer to the question: Do you speak English:well, not very well, not at all and this is what has been the basis for this recent storm in a teacup.

It is true that the data from the census shows that of all immigrant groups older women from Pakistan and Bangladesh are most likely to answer the questions 'not very well/not at all'. But they will not be the only ones!

It is better if , when moving to a new country, that newcomers make every effort to learn the language and local customs whilst maintaining their home language and culture. At one point in UK, as other posters have said, there was funding and opportunity for classes and community drop-in groups to support newcomers, women in particular, to learn English.

Sadly sometimes host communities have not been welcoming and this can make a newcomer reluctant to go out and about without ofthe safety being accompanied/ or in a crowd. Cultural differences can take time to break down and in some cases custom is used to prevent women from gaining skills that may help her live a fuller life. That is not acceptable.

Please stop. This makes very unpleasant reading.

From now on anything Anniebach has to say will be ignored by me, no point trying to have a balanced discussion with such a person, thank goodness she is a minority, these racist slurs makes my blood go cold, at least if they come out with it you can react accordingly, for me not to react, not worth it.