Too awful to contemplate?

I had a neighbour who neglected a child. It was not sexual abuse . This was many years ago and no one believed it because no one wanted to believe it. I suspect we still feel the same way ,normal people don't harm children is the default mindset. I only read about it since this thread was posted although I think I saw something in the paper yesterday.

"I am slightly surprised nobody has commented on the dreadful instance....."

That is a comment on the remissiveness of other GNrs. Not about the case in question.

Unfortunately, discussing it will not achieve anything in this instance.

But we have to assume he is innocent until proved guilty. If he is innocent he must be going through a really tough time.

Nonnie, he will not be found guilty as there will not be a trial. However, his DNA was found on the child and her injuries were horrific enough to cause her death. I doubt someone so vile and sick will be going through a tough time unless people give him a tough time. We can only hope.
I have thought about it (woke up in the night thinking about it) and briefly discussed it with two friends today; I have heard many horrific stories during my working life but some never fail to haunt.

Stansgran you may be right about the default mindset, which could possibly excuse the doctor who examined her; however, police and social workers do encounter such horrors and should have been more aware.

anniebach I think there were four or five other children, and I think they have been taken into care.
I thought I heard that DNA from him had been found on Poppi so I cannot understand why that is not evidence enough to bring him to trial unless that evidence has been destroyed (WHY!?).

I am afraid appalling child abuse like this happens far more often than we all wish to think about. Not all of it could ever have been forseen.

However the failure to properly investigate this crime is criminal negligence. Because of very serious failings during the investigation, a lot of the crucial evidence was lost or disposed of. So it is likely that the perpetrator will be free and could present a potential risk to other children.

The real issue here is about a major failure by our justice, legal and social care system and we should all be very very concerned about that.

Do not read the Telegraph article article if you will find it really distressing.
I have posted this as it clearly highlights the very serious mistakes made during the so called investigation. It is not pleasant reading, but IMO the public should be informed about the failures in this case.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/child-protection/12107318/Poppi-Worthington-Toddler-was-sexually-assaulted-by-father-before-sudden-death-judge-rules.html

No, jingl it was a question asking if others had found this too awful even for discussion. I know I am squeamish about violence, reports of abuse or torture. You may not remember but some months ago I commented that I had had to turn the radio off at a particularly graphic report of torture. I think it was you who implied I needed to "man up" at the time.

By the time I read this morning that a Family Court judge had named the father as the guilty party and also how no action had been taken at the time, I wondered why nobody else seemed to have flagged up the apparent negligence of the police, the CPS or the Coroner's court.

If I am seen as being critical of a lack of response. I suppose it was this comment which occasioned that -
Yes, Alea to answer your OP, some things are too awful to contemplate and we choose to discuss cleaners and sheets.

Reassuringly, Seacliff and others have echoed my sentiments, and finally
No, the case has not been in the news "long enough" so please don't use that as an excuse. You don't want to comment, fair enough.
Others do, that is also their prerogative. Whatever, questions must be asked both of the police , SS and the CPS and answered satisfactorily if we are to have any confidence in them.

For reference,
On October 22 I posted that I had had to turn off ' From Our Own Correspondent' because of a particularly detailed and graphic description of torture and suggested a "warning"of content which could be distressing at the start of the programme -not just for wimps like me, but perhaps mums with the radio on with their children around and able to understand.
You commented
It is a programme for grown ups. The purpose of it is to tell us what is happening in other countries. Why should the pill have to be sugared?

I give up.

we can take heart, it's not over yet

So a judge has ruled that he did assault the baby which evidence should show that this led to her death.
I hope they can bring a sufficiently strong case now for a trial.

I cannot remember if the DNA evidence was found after the decision not to proceed to trial was taken; I think I read that some material suitable for forensic examination was retained.

The photograph of Poppi in her Little Tikes Coupe is just heartbreaking, and, although nothing will bring her back, justice should done and others who were negligent brought to book.

There is no evidence, that's the point - it was either mislaid or discoounted at the time.

Jalima read the link to the Telegraph article in my post below.

But I read yesterday that there was DNA evidence (found subsequently). I will try to remember where I read or heard it.

Poppi’s DNA was found on Mr Worthington’s penis, but experts said that could have got there by indirect means.

It may have been this that I heard which, of course, would not be enough for a conviction. Any wily barrister who is willing to defend such scum a defendant would be able to get him off.

I suspect you're right Alea, in assuming this case is too dreadful to contemplate and that's why no one had started a discussion until you did. Those who say talking about it here won't change anything in this case are right but that hasn't stopped lengthy discussions about all manner of issues where talk on this forum won't influence things

I've read the Judgement and I'm shocked by the chronology of events and lack of investigation by either Police or social workers. Mistakes seem to have been made from the outset, the nappy the little one was wearing, the sheet she lay on in the ambulance all contained forensic evidence, all were disposed of (the nappy by her paternal aunt who told a police officer that's what she was doing).

It seems clear that the local authority, medical and police guidelines just weren't followed. It's truly shocking and I do hope the MP's request for a Baby P type enquiry is successful. This little girl had two fractures to her leg, also found by the pathologist. The pathologist phoned the police team within a week to say her findings suggested the little girl died as a result of a serious sexual assault.

Those who caution the father may be innocent would I believe be persuaded otherwise if they read the Judgement.

It seems the CPS are to review its decision not to prosecute. In the (relative) absence of forensic evidence I'm not sure whether a prosecution is possible.
Usually, the legal proceedings are concluded before the family court proceedings.

Is there enough circumstantial and expert witness based evidence to bring it to trial?

I'm not convinced there is Jalima. I know some people take the view that if there hasn't been a criminal conviction, that means a man in this situation has been "found innocent", that may not be so, as in this case.

The recent fact finding was the second in this case. That is highly unusual and happened because the father applied to discharge the Care Orders made in the family court a year earlier. Presumably, the father argued he hadn't been charged or convicted and wanted his children returned to his care. He had obtained medical evidence which he said contradicted the original pathologists report. the Judgement goes into significant detail but concludes the father did penetrate the child, causing her death. The details are truly distressing.

It is too awful to contemplate but as a society contemplate we must. This baby girl should have justice. We the public need to know why the authorities have failed so appallingly. We certainly need to understand why the case has been so mishandled. Perhaps some of us felt that we didn't know enough about the case to start a thread. It doesn't mean we don't care. It does need to be kept in the public eye until we know the truth.

So, the local MP has suggested that resources at the time, were taken up with hunting down celebrity sex abusers. And there was no money left over to protect this child. And others no doubt.

I hope all those who jumped on that particular band wagon are enjoying their payouts.

World's gone crazy.

I haven't read that comment from the local MP but it's total nonsense. I will be stunned if it emerges that the police involved in Poppi's investigation were so busy investigating Jimmy S and co that they forgot to follow their own procedures and protocols for this little girl.

I also believe that this man, her father, had been accused of sexually abusing other children before this, but the cases were dropped 'for lack of evidence'.

This 'man's sister was on the news last night trying to exonerate him. She was not in the least convincing. I know its an awful thing to say but I expect there might be some vigilante action taken against him. Nobody likes child abusers. He may be on the receiving end of some rough justice. .....