Too awful to contemplate?

It is rumoured , then denied , that he has"fled abroad "for his own safety.

Jalima is DNA a euphemism?

If this man is innocent he has been tried by GN and the media. The point I am making is that I don't know if he is guilty or innocent. I saw a headline a few days ago about a child taken from it's parents which made it sound like the reason was trivial but when I read the whole article there were very good reasons.

We have all seen the witch hunts of well known people who were innocent but tried by media and hounded because 'there is no smoke without fire'.

I don't see how they will ever bring a successful case against the father. The evidence is long gone. It would only be guesswork. It was totally mishandled at the time, and the evil sod has got away with it.

I think the handling of the case should be looked into thoroughly, and even prosecutions made for dereliction of duty. If there is such a thing in law. Examples should be set so that nothing like it happens again.

Until police are held responsible for their wrong doings these horrors will continue . If the father did hurt this little one he should have been arrested and charged, he wasn't , the police failed to carry out their duty should be charged, most will happen is early retirement plus pension

Your spot on there, Annie. But don't hold your breath.

Petra, I believe in miracles but the police being held responsible and facing justice for their mistakes and their corruption will take more than a miracle

If there was evidence that the man is guilty, this should have been taken to court.

If there was evidence that the man is innocent, this should have been properly documented so that he would not be hounded as is now happening.

We rely on police to investigate possible crimes and to do everything they can to find out the truth. In this instance it seems they did the opposite so those responsible should certainly be punished in some way.

Annie I wish you would choose your words more carefully.
Clearly there has been dereliction of duty by both the police and social workers in this case, and from what I have read, action is being taken against at least one serving officer.

Your post at 15.01.34 implies firstly that the majority of police officers are incompetent and/or corrupt and secondly that there is no will to bring to account those who do fall short.

This is unfair and unjust to the many who do a very difficult job in tough circumstances.

Alea - yes, I was too appalled by this to think of starting a thread or indeed speaking of it to anyone.

The thoughts I feel able to share are:
There appears to have been extraordinary incompetence by Cumbia police and possibly ambulance and hospital staff too.
Sometimes the tiniest suspicion of an inappropriate touch seems to be regarded as enough to hound a parent or other person in charge of a child and charge them. This little girl had fatal injuries.
If the father is found guilty and goes to prison he will be a target as Sutcliffe was.
Is there any way to control the big business of online porn? It was involved in the North Wales case and, apparently, in this one.

Let us put the record straight Annie - yes, it seems that yet again the police and other agencies have been negligent in their duty. But if this man is guilty, and the balance of evidence seems to suggest he was, he is the one who needs to be 'held responsible' for 'wrong doings' and face justice.

Yes. And in an ideal world he would be. But to bring a case against someone there has to be the small matter of usable evidence. Which, in this case, was destroyed. The people who need to be punished for that now are the people who were completely remiss in their handling of the matter at the time it happened.

But I doubt if that will happen. I believe the main police officer on the case was allowed to take early retirement at fortyeight, and now lives quietly on his pension.

What exactly is the evidence you speak of Anya. And where is it stored?

And have I not said if the father is guilty he should be punished ? But I think as he was not the police are responsible for failing in their duty and they too should be punished , we really don't need to hear - lessons will be learned

is DNA a euphemism
Sorry Nonnie, not sure what you mean

Did the report not say that the baby's DNA was found on her father's penis.
Of course, it could be claimed that it got there by any other means.
Any barrister could suggest several other means.

Lessons never seem to be learned do they.

Was the police who handed over the nappy to the aunt a complete bungling idiot or was he guilty of conspiracy? Will we ever know?

Sorry, policeman not 'police'.

It seems extremely complicated. this is the official report on the various investigations It makes unpleasant reading. Avoid if you think you will be too upset.

TBH, reading that, I can't see how it can ever be satisfactorily concluded with any certainty. Very very sad.

The experts all seem to disagree. Without further evidence, how can they ever be completely sure? I mean, if they weren't sure then.

That is it, without evidence no-one can be tried. He can neither be convicted nor cleared. It is quite obvious that something very nasty happened to that little girl, but tying it to him would not succeed in the absence of the evidence that would prove it. If he were convicted without the evidence, there would always be a doubt.

I will read it, thank you for the link, don't have the stomach for it tonight though.

I suppose my question is why were the obvious actions not taken at the time. I mean why wasn't the bedding, nappies etc kept? Was it down to one new or incompetent officer first on the scene and taken aback by parental grief? Someone somewhere decided not to give credence to the pathologists report but why? There are actual questions that can be asked and key officers are still around. I'm very glad its being looked into.

jingl I referred to the judge's ruling that brought all this back into the public domain. He stated that on the 'balance of evidence available' he considered it highly likely that this man had sexually assaulted his daughter shortly before her death.

Judges do not issue statements like this lightly so I imagine that he took into account all the available evidence he was presented with. He also took into consideration reports that this man had previously been accused to sexual assaults on other children.

As the law stands there is little likelihood of this man being successfully prosecuted but the judge's conclusion at least ensures that his future 'activities' will be either severely curtailed or immediately investigated thoroughly. Or even that other of his victims will speak out.

That sums it up briefly and accurately Anya.

The family court hearing that led to the recent Judgement was held in the presence of reporters, though not the general public with I feel is entirely appropriate. The High Court Judge who has had oversight of family proceedings involving Poppi's brothers and sisters has sat through days of evidence and x examination and will have read and carefully considered every report submitted in the proceedings. He would not have reached the conclusions he did without careful consideration.