How will you vote in the EU referendum?

I wouldn't believe Farage if he said today was Tuesday, would check my diary

100 likes Anniebach

Lavande

Nope you are mistaken.

I am not repeating Nigel Farage.. I already said UKIP figures were not taking into account the rebate.

I entered Full FactEU contribution and looked on https:/full fact.org>economy>our-eu-...

Why not?

The Conservatives have been on two sides of the EU debate for decades. I would hope that they are a little more grounded / mature than falling out over this.

Mind you I think there could be one hell of a stink now the odious Jeremy Heywood has declared that ' Cabinet Ministers backing the Leave Campaign are not to have access to the Civil Service on the specific issue of the referendum ' .Bloody cheek.

That just stinks and I fail to see how this is democracy or even handed and I hope they are challenged . If the public get a whiff of secrecy or not playing fair then it just might backfire on the In Campaign. This is not Zimbabwe the last time I looked.

POGS. I wondered what dirty tricks they would deploy to make sure they win. This we know of, what of what we don't.

POGS, The UK doesn't have higher unemployment than most EU countries nor does it have higher benefits for most people. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything anyway.

I gave my daughter as an example of the way the EU gives back to UK citizens. I could have given others, eg. farmers.

There is absolutely nothing to stop any young person from the UK going to another EU country to find work, if that's where the work is. I expect you remember the 1990s when the German construction industry was booming after German reunification. Many people, including young ones, went to Berlin to find work.

I think the main issue is the economy, but I also think that the EU has made the British less insular.

POGS I am referring once again and for the final time to the UK contribution to the EU. I did not infer that you quoted Nigel Farage's figures but that the article was from Full Fact which challenged them. I then quoted from an extract from the HM Treasury Report which has a different account.

This is taken from the HM Treasury EU Finances Dec 2015.
Statement on the 2015 EU Budget and Measures to Counter Fraud and Financial Mismanagement.

Table3A Gross Payments, Rebates and Receipts

2014 Gross Payments £18,777bn
Less Rebate - £4,416bn
Less Public Sector Receipts - £4,576bn
Net Contributions £9,785bn

The estimated net contribution for 2015 is £8,473bn.

I am happy to let the matter rest there.

I strongly feel we should stay in. We need the EU for trade, many major companies would leave the UK if we leave the EU. We would become a minor country and much poorer than now without any security from being a member of a larger group of countries. The amount we pay into the Eu is minor in comparison.

It was mentioned upthread that we should stay in the EU and fight for fairness.
We shouldnt have to fight for it! And we have never won. No one with the possible exception of Germany wins. And they dont either now.

if we leave the EU how will that affect thousands of expats living abroad? Come to think of it how will it affect those working here from other European countries? Would they then become illegals? sorry if this has already been gone over I haven't read the whole thread.

It has Tanith, but this is the situation afaik. Those of us who have been away for more than five years should have no problem with continued residency. There may be short-term issues around health cover, but this depends on hypothetical post-Brexit reciprocal agreements (there are a lot of French in London). There are financial implications because of falling exchange rates and this is already happening.
I don't think we will be lined up on the quai with our suitcases, but I do know people who are applying for French nationality.

Thankyou Mamie for the update.

www.robert-schuman.eu/en/doc/questions-d-europe/qe-355-en.pdf

From a former director general of EU legal services, about Brexit and what it means in law.

durhamjenthe Schuman document posted above is one of the most concise and informative that I have read so far. Thank you for that.

daphnedill

Sorry to be obtuse but where did I say we have higher unemployment ?

Are you also saying that countries such as Poland and Lithuania do not have lower financial welfare benefits than the UK.

Well folk! Anne Summers have backed th in campaign. That decides it!

Poland and Lithuania have very little to offer in the benefits dept, or indeed in the wages dept.How many Brits want to go and work there, compared with their Nationals who want to be here?
The EU has just got too big , plus unsuitable countries were admitted to it, who can now travel anywhere, it's out of control and too expensive.What happens to all Empires when they expand too much? They end up collapsing.

Which way, Galen?

Unemployment benefit in Lithuania was (2013) from €101pw ((£79.42) to €188 (£147.83) based on insurance contributions. There's a top up for people within five years of retirement age. Given that the cost of living is lower, that doesn't seem like 'very little' to me - it's more than JSA in the UK (£73.10).

Crocky, I don't know why Cornish MPs want to leave the EU. Cornwall receives a massive amount of EU funding - over half a £billion is planned from 2014 to 2020. Much of that goes to Cornish farmers and fishermen. The Cornish fishing industry started going into decline during the nineteenth century - nothing to do with the EU. I hope Cornwall can persuade the UK government to divert a similar amount of funding for regeneration or that Cornish fishermen can find an extra half a billion pounds worth of fish without overfishing.

daphnedill

Where did I say the UK has higher unemployment?

Using the organisation favoured by most posters Full Fact says this in conclusion having broken down the' variables ' to welfare payments.

" The relative 'generosity' of the UK's benefit system in comparison to other EU countries can be measured in a number of different ways, and the outcome will vary depending on which metric and daratest is chosen.

With this in mind the UK can rank anywhere from 'top' to 'below average' in a European league table of benefits and welfare"

POGS

Sorry I missed your earlier post about unemployment and apologies for thinking you had claimed that the UK had high unemployment. It was my error. I was actually replying to somebody else - so much for trying to multitask!

For the record, the UK has extremely low unemployment. Immigrants wouldn't want to come here, if we didn't!

As for benefits, the UK's benefits (as you rightly point out) aren't universally generous. The big problem with our benefits is that they are means tested rather than relying on contributions, as most other systems are.

The EU doesn't stop the the UK from changing. The UK doesn't want to change, because it wants to continue the idea that benefits should be related to to need rather than how much somebody has paid. This means that people from different countries within the EU should be treated equally. For some reason or other, the UK (not the EU) has decided not introduce limits - this, I understand, is what Dave has just done.

rosesarered chose the wrong example with Lithuania! Most other EU countries have a similar contributions-based system and are more generous. I agree it becomes more difficult when disability benefits and tax credits are included , which is why they are difficult to compare. One thing is for sure, the Daily Mail and Daily Express are just so wrong in their claims about benefit scroungers.

PS. My source was a comparison of the DWP and equivalent Lithuanian websites.

There is a good article here about what the aftermath of Brexit might actually look like. I realise The Guardian is not everyone's cup of morning tea, but it makes interesting reading.
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/24/outers-win-lose-eu-referendum

I find it odd that people want to "progress" and yet these very people appear too scared to do just that.
As the Guardian article says, the sky wont fall in etc

And why, just because an area has received EU finding, should those people then vote for the EU. The extra 12 billion that the country would have[or whatever the exact figure is], would be spent in some way in the UK which would benefit those areas.

How much is 12 billion per year, for 40 years. Approx £500 billion