How will you vote in the EU referendum?

I note what you say, Wimaknickersfit.
Let's look at the Schengen Agreement. Denmark has reinstated it's border with Germany. Brussels is threatening Greece with expulsion from the zone unless it strengthens it's border, although I don't know how they can do that with their financial problems and the geography of the country.
The infighting has started.

I think with the increasing lack of investment in education, science, health and housing, we are becoming a de-skilled, unhealthy and demoralised nation and might be quite vulnerable out there on our own.
Then again, it could be just the kick up the backside boost to morale that we need.

However, I am undecided, there is much to ponder.

petra there's always been infighting. There's always been deals done behind closed doors. This is a crisis and it will be resolved one way or the other. Pulling up the drawbridge isn't the answer.

I don't understand what people who want to leave the EU think will happen if we do. I understand the emotional pull of only being answerable to ourselves. Personally I believe Britain's status in the world would be damaged by leaving and that we are more secure as part of the EU bloc.

Well, I will talk to younger members of my family and younger people to find out their views - after all, they are the future.

Jalima. Look at the thread on Mumsnetj

Wilmaknickers. I suppose that's the difference between you and I. I've never needed to belong to a club to feel secure.
I'm sure the Bosnians and Kosovans felt 'secure' that was until Malosovitch (sp) went on his killing spree. We looked the other way then. Human nature dictates that: when the shit hits the fan, it's everyone for himself.

Actually, during two world wars, when the shit hit the fan, as you so nicely put it, it wasn't every man for himself. You do realise you have written that the day after Holocaust memorial day.
Europe worked together on the whole. Even the US joined in and helped. Against the Germans, I admit, but the rest stood together.

Obama has said that the relationship will have to be renegotiated if the UK leaves Europe. You can take that as threat if you like, and say you will not be bullied. As far as the US is concerned it's pragmatic.

Thank you for the link Lavande. Will have a look as Everything I have read so far seems to have been slanted one way or the other.

theconversation.com/why-pulling-out-of-the-eu-wont-give-britain-complete-control-over-its-affairs-53763

petra there's no need for that kind of comment. You can not presume to know the differences between us based on the limited exchanges we've had on here.

As a matter of interest, do posters on here think one party is more pro European than anotherI (apart from UKIP obviously)?

Leave, Leave, L E A V E.

Taking into consideration some of the comments thus far, it seems that some have already made a decision to Vote to leave. Fair enough but what exactly will be gained and what will that look like? Cameron has yet to conclude negotiations for EU reform so at this stage the outcome is a big unknown. By contrast there is a considerable body of statistics and data (and myth) about what it means to be in the EU. I think it is worth revisiting why Britain wanted to join the EEC which it achieved after De Gaulle's departure. Primarily it was a means of avoiding economic decline as commonwealth and bilateral trade treaties were not proving as beneficial as expected. So why would they work now? Edward Heath,as prime minister at the time of entering the EEC believed that political and economic integration was a way of avoiding another devastating European war. There was only 30 years between WW1 and WW2. It is now 70 years since WW2 and those war years still haunt many European countries. Of course there are political economic and social tensions between countries as much as there are within countries. But, surely voting to break ties with Europe means taking a plunge into the dark?
Wikmaknickersfit thankyou for the link which I have read and your subsequent post is also very persuasive.

You're welcome Lavande, I just want people to take the time to learn about the pros and cons, instead of voting only with their hearts about such an important subject.

I'm not a big fan of the EU as an organisation. It's sheer size and complexity makes it slow and inefficient, but it is well intentioned. However, it is continually trying to reform and I would rather we stay part of the EU and influence those reforms.

In my earlier post I made the same point as you i.e. What do people who will vote to leave you EU think will happen? What changes do they expect?

The problem is always going to be finding reputable impartial sources of information.

petra yes, I will look on the thread on mumsnet, but I am interested in my family's views and that of young friends and neighbours for the sake of all their futures - and interested too as they have many years to retirement unlike me.

I think the UK has at least some responsibility for the problems in the Middle East.

I have just finished watching Question Time, and obviously this question was on there.
The only one who would not answer was the Tory, the transport minister, McCloughlin. Although he said he would probably vote to stay in, it would depend on the agreement that Cameron came to with the other members.
Cameron isn't going to come to an agreement.
One thing that was said was that if the UK votes to come out, Scotland will go for devolution to stay in. One of the main determinants of the devolution debate was Cameron saying that if Scotland voted to leave it would have to leave the EU. Now if Britain votes to leave the EU, Scotland will have to leave as well, even if it does not want to.

Just a small point. It was 20 years and 10 months between the two world wars, not 30 as previously stated.
As for remaining in Europe? There's a question!!! I don't feel that I can possibly know what's best for the future of this country. Whose got the crystal ball? Something tells me that I shal be abstaining.

I was for the EU for years but I am not hearing good arguments to stay in. I hoped that if we had a crisis we could all help to solve it but that hasn't happened with the refugee crisis, terrorism or Greek debt.It also costs a fortune. I think it's breaking up anyway. So reluctantly for those reasons "I'm out"

I hope we get some proper unbiased media reporting some day soon. For the past 10 years I have carried out community projects in collaboration with many of the European member states - around employment (youth & adult) disability issues, women in business, volunteering, empowering the community to name just a few. Where will the funding for these kind of issues come from in the future if UK leaves? Our Government is cutting, cutting, cutting, to the most vulnerable members of society. Will this funding still be available when we are no longer members and why would the other countries want to see their "membership fees" spent in the UK. What will the long term impact be on our young people in finding jobs? Yes, I do see things which need improvement but at the moment, unless I hear to the contrary, I am inclined to believe we should stay in and continue to negotiate for what we believe is right. Its also been my experience that UK is very much valued as a member, they see us as a huge knowledge resource, so where will we "sell" this to in the future? Some really difficult issues - we need a lot more information on which to base a decision.

Leave & as soon as possible.
As a very young mum at the last referendum I voted no & I did not know a single person who voted yes. I had a very large range of friends to consult too. I still maintain it was a fix & I'm not into conspiracy theories usually.
I was devastated by the result then wondering what sort of world I was bringing my babies into.
Now I know & I can't wait to get out to give GB a chance to thrive in an open market & make our own rules again for the sake of my grandchildren.

Definitely stay!

I voted in the last referendum in 1973, but that was for a trade agreement, certainly not the United States of Europe. Even in the US, each state is allowed to keep a lot of their own laws,. The worrying thing is that we have lost so much of our sovereignty, it is scary.

The EU is desperate to keep Britain in as weprovide so much money - but Britain is not that keen on the corruption. Has anyone heard if the accounts have EVER been closed for any one year. As for gravy train, just look at people like the Kinnocks - they are not very nice, several Welshmen have told me they don't count as welsh!

i'm don't' know what I'll vote, there are pros and cons; i need to see what Cameron and Angela come up with...

sorry Wilma... - I can't get those figures to add up to over 70% I make the total 63.8%. And since when did our biggest export market, the USA, or China for that matter, belong to the EU? Without them the total would be well under half (46.1%) and that includes Switzerland!
And yes I do think EU countries will still trade with us if we left and , more importantly, we would be free of the restrictions the EU impose on trade with other countries.

I've no idea how I will eventually vote. I was firmly in favour of the Common Market and still believe in free trade throughout Europe. But hate being told what to do by the European Parliament. The big problem is we no longer have the British Empire to fall back on. We can't force Australia and NZ to sell us cheap sheep, Africa and India cheap tea, coffee, rice, the West Indies bananas etc. As for the job situation, I honestly can't make up my mind. I live in one of the most seriously deprived towns in Britain where for every job that is created, there are 25 applicants, and even then, they're minimum wage and no more than 15-20 hours per week. My disabled son left university 8 years ago and although he's applied for everything going, no matter how unsuitable, he has only been able to find unpaid voluntary work, and that only for 1 day a week.

Stay!

Thanks for the links, WilmaKnickersfit; very thought-provoking.

I see no benefit at all to leaving - if we intend to continue trading with the EU at anything like our current levels, we will still have to comply with European trade law.
And then there's the prospect of a devolved Scotland again. As a historian, THAT's the thing that could get me emotional about leaving!
As to EU corruption - far better to try and reform the institution from the inside, where we have a voice!