How will you vote in the EU referendum?

I don't think that anyone on here appreciates a 'grilling' for their reasons to either stay or leave the EU, this thread was more simply for asking which way we would vote? There are plenty of sites to go to for info, then you can make your own mind up,without posters seeking to sway us either way.

I wish people would read the ruddy posts before jumping in with both feet. What bit of "I'm not saying the legislation was 'bad' in any way" don't you understand felice ??

Think some people just want to be obtuse.

And what part of 'the last Land Rover Defender rolled of the production line yesterday' is incorrect? Oh yes, The One Show Strange that, as the same director was spitting feathers on the local news about the demise.

I'm all for clean air regs.

I'm not bloody minded. But I don't want to be ruled by a bureaucrat ( Junckers) who ruled a country ( Luxembourg ) that is no bigger than Bristol.
And for those of you that like looking up facts: look at his track record with Ebay. Ebay are based in Luxembourg.

Anya are you really proposing that the UK should be going backwards to making cars without seat belts and unsafe emissions causing various problems for health etc, surely not.
Anyway what i saw on the One Show was the director of the existing plant saying that they planned on bringing out a new safer cleaner version of the defender. A friend has one and has been told he will have no problems getting spare parts.
The EU are not the only ones to legislate against car emmissions, just look at the case in the USA with the VW scandal.
One more thing to blame the EU for, ridiculous.

Although there are clear differences of view about what has taken place within the EU and what should happen in the future, for me what matters are facts. Some comments suggest that the UK needs to reclaim sovereignty, take charge of its own destiny negotiate its own trading deals etc. but the political structure and mechanisms are in place and they do work within and for the EU. I don't suppose one could envisage how the EEC as it was initially was going evolve. Interestingly, the gallop polls in 1975 taken prior to that referendum showed that what was important to the electorate then was: defense, Britain's voice in International affairs, Britain's position in the world, hopes for our children. Is that so very different now? All the 73 elected MEPs do have names and they can be found on their website, www.europarl.org.uk. All the European Parliament, Council and Commission documents are accessible to every EU citizen. MEPs do "have the power to approve, amend or reject nearly all EU legislation". The EU parliament also decides on budgets and influences how the revenue is spent. Anybody else interested in facts, may also like to subscribe to an organisation www.fullfact.org, a registered charity which does what is says - check facts. On that website you will find UK trading figures, percentage of EU legislation influenced by or related to the EU and anything else you might be interested in.
Finally thanks to durhamjen for the TTIP links which make very sobering reading, especially given the Guardian headlines today of the NHS spiraling cash crisis. I'm off for a glass (big one) of wine.

Anya. There's still hope for the Defender. They will be making parts for the next 50 years. So hopefully the time might come when they can resurrect the plant.

Reasons for staying and for leaving EU sorry if this link has been posted before.

The last Land Rover Defender rolled off the production line yesterday, despite having a full order book.

"Changes in European legislation that made some of its distinctive features outmoded, if not downright illegal. Side-facing seats in the back were outlawed by EU legislation after 2007, and changing standards, in fuel consumption and emissions to crash tests, made more and more facets of the Defender unviable. The Defender’s prospects in many markets were severely curtailed." The Guardian

I'm not sure how I'll vote yet. But this is one example of European legislation imposing something on a local industry and which, in this instance, brought production to a halt in this country. I'm not saying the legislation was 'bad' in any way. I'm just pointing out this has happened, here, and now.

I agree Jess. I have asked the question before, "What is it that you think you want to do, but can't because of the EU?". I can think of lots of things that I can do because the UK is in the EU but nothing that I can't do.
I just don't get why people would risk the economic future of the country and the possible break-up of the United Kingdom because of some vaguely expressed dislike of "faceless bureaucrats" whatever those are.
To hark back to trading partnerships that existed forty years ago and think that they can be revived seems extremely naive to me.
I will vote to remain and continue to be British in Europe.

You did dj, ref: recycling!

Thanks for looking up that link dj, I check it out later.

petra I think you're right. People don't like change and I'm sure the reason David Cameron wants the referendum to be sooner rather than later is largely to do with stopping the 'Leave' vote growing.

Still awaiting just one "no" voter to tell me something that the EU has imposed on them.
There do not seem to be any reasoned arguments to take the huge risk of leaving other than "i don't like being told what to do".

Did I say on GN, Niggly?

No, didn't think so.

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1215979-The-EU-and-how-it-works

Here's one of them, Wilma.

Roses. Agree with "people don't like change"
It looks like we might have to wait until 2017 to vote. I think this is a good thing for the no vote. Things are unravelling in Europe and I think it will only get worse this year.

I imagine the 'bloody minded people was a pop at me dj? All I would say is that a lot of people do think exactly that! By and large people without your superior education, and definitely without your undoubted political accumen. All of us labouring under these two unfortunate impediments do have the vote, and sadly are unable perhaps to understand the finer points of the political argument, even with the helpful articles, links and other pointers from the Guardian, The Independent, or, horrifyingly The Daily Telegraph! A lot of people view politicians with suspicion whatever their political persuasion, and European ones in particular. MEP s? Well who are they? People on the gravy train like the Kinnocks? I'm not sure that many people hold them in great regard who ever they are. So yes, I think you will find that there are a lot of 'bloody minded people' out there, as you so disparagingly call them.

I was living in Germany when the vote for the Common Market was on, and not allowed to vote. This time I will vote to leave quite happily. I think what we have got from being a member does not outweigh the negatives, and yes, in some instances I object strongly to being told what do do by some EU bureaucrat!

I will vote to leave,no ifs or buts.None of us who voted for the EEC could have imagined what it would turn into.
However, I think the 'stay in' vote will prevail because people generally hate change and the thought of any uncertainty.

dj I don't think I was on GN then.

jing it will be interesting to see what happens. A lot of people have just had enough of the EU. I've already received a newspaper thingy about it through my door and we don't even have a date for the referendum. I wonder what the turn out will be? It's a shame 16 and 17 year olds won't get to vote. I think giving them a vote in the Scottish referendum was a success and this referendum is just as big a deal and a great way to get younger people interested enough in politics to bother voting.

I wonder how many people will change their minds when the actual serious campaigning starts.

Excellent post, Wilma.
I often find I read so many links from links that I do not have time to go on Gransnet.
By the way, whitewave did lots of threads about the EU last year, with as much information as she could find about how it works. I do not know if you were on GN then.

Excellent post railman. I've had to do a lot of digging to find good sources of information, but I found that when I searched for information about one subject I would often find links to other interesting stuff. Honestly I believe the only way you can decide how to vote is by reading things for yourself and if you're lucky, discuss things with other people. I wish I could discuss the referendum with my late Dad. He was a sponge when it comes to information and all my family loves a good discussion (we're never short of opinions ). Sadly we're spread all over the place these days, so that's not an option for me. Good luck.

Gagagran I agree the electorate was never given the opportunity to vote directly on the changes brought in by the Maastricht Treaty. We might even be the only country not to get a referendum, I can't remember.

However, the Tories were in power from 1979 until 1997, so if anyone voted Tory at the general elections, then by default they did vote for the Single European Act signed by Margaret Thatcher in 1987 and the Maastricht Treaty signed by John Major in 1992. Even after the Maastricht Treaty was signed, closer ties with Europe was a Tory 1992 election manifesto promise.

The Maastricht Treaty was a success both for Britain and for the rest of Europe. British proposals helped to shape the key provisions of the Treaty including those strengthening the enforcement of Community law defence, subsidiarity and law and order. But Britain refused to accept the damaging Social Chapter proposed by other Europeans, and it was excluded from the Maastricht treaty.

It's worth mentioning that Labour's 1983 general election manifesto (when the party leader was Michael Foot) pledged to begin negotiations to withdraw from the EU "within the lifetime" of the following Parliament. But of course, Labour lost the election.

And we do have a say and in several ways. Firstly we elect our MEPs and secondly we elect our MPs. But more importantly the UK government negotiates every change within the EU.

That said, when the impact of any new regulation is scrutinised by the Regulatory Policy Committee, all though initially it considers the impact on a wide scale including consumers and the public service, when it comes to the final risk impact assessment, the new regulation can only regarded as not fit for purpose if there are concerns about the estimated cost to business. Nothing else and it has been criticised by the OECD for this approach.

It's up to the individual how much interest they take in our government, but we can't blame everything we don't like on the EU. How a policy is implemented is down to our government and our local authorities, etc. right here at home.

As far as recycling collection is concerned, it's every area in the UK being different. They do what they consider to be best for their county. All my recycling goes in one bin, apart from the glass, and is then sorted when it gets to the depot.
There is no problem with recycling. The EU does not tell us how we should do it. They just tell us that we should. That we are charged for landfill is a good idea, as it makes most people think about what happens to the waste we produce - apart, that is, from some bloody minded people who say that no EU bureaucrat is going to tell me what to do.