Deporting this woman is morally wrong, it is brutal too
Why doesn't Starmer hold another referendum?
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Should bureaucracy or compassion be our priority
(85 Posts)I often wonder about whether the UK civil servants put bureaucracy before compassion.
For instance today's headlines about the 92 gran
A Home Office decision to deport a 92-year-old widow who wanted to spend the “end of her days” with her only child in Britain could kill the pensioner, her daughter has said.
Myrtle Cothill, who was born under the British flag in 1924 and whose father fought for Britain in the first world war, has been ordered to travel to Heathrow on Tuesday for a flight to South Africa.
Mary Wills, her daughter, told the Guardian that officials said she should go back to South Africa, where she has no family, and seek help from the Red Cross.
The pensioner has fought a campaign since last year to stay with 66-year-old Wills in Poole, arguing she has no support in South Africa and is independent from the state with her £300-a-month pension.
“My mother is in a terrible state. She is just shaking and shaking,” said Wills. “It is so cruel. We don’t know what to do.” She added that officials said the government would pay for her flight to South Africa and give her “£1,000 to tide her over”.
“My mother gets a private pension from my late father so she wouldn’t qualify for assistance from Red Cross. But she should be with her family. The heartbreak of leaving us at her age could finish her off and finish me off, too,” said Wills.
“If she doesn’t go to the airport on Tuesday, they will probably take her to detention centre. That will be signing her death certificate,” she warned.
In December, Cothill said: “I don’t want to go. I’ve got nobody there and I am not well enough to travel. I’m very upset. I’m very old. I’m 92. I want to live with my daughter for the end of my days.”
Cothill, whose husband died more than 40 years ago, survived on her own in South Africa with the support of her friends and her local church. But as she got older and her community thinned, it became apparent to her that she needed to be cared for by her daughter in Britain. She has an enlarged heart and poor hearing and has lost the sight in one eye
The Home Office says that Cothill’s application was rejected as her “condition was not deemed to be life-threatening” and that “suitable medical treatment” was available in her country of origin.She has been in Dorset since February 2014 and made an application to the Home Office for leave to remain the country as an adult dependent on human rights grounds.
Sent from my iPad
These cases make me so angry. If the lady has family here and none in SA, is it really going to make a significant difference to our immigration figures if she's allowed to stay for the rest of her life? And the usual "her condition is not life-threatening" argument is not exactly sound . . . - whether she stays or goes she will not live for ever - the human condition is, by definition, life-threatening!!! Grrrrrr!
I am pleased I started off this thread and greatly appreciate all the support for the elderly lady.
Elegran, i don't think it is up to us to support the Gov of the day or support the status quo, if it is moraly wrong to take such a bureacratic decision then we should say so.
I just cannot understand any such lack of compassion towards a 92 year old lady. If it was a member of my family I would be knocking at the door of Bucks House if necessary.
I don't care if she has lied, stolen , or what ever, she is aged and needs her daughter
It is not a question of what rules we would bend for our own family, but of what happens when it is discovered that those rules have been bent.
If, for instance, we were to claim benefits by saying that we have no means of support, while working and earning a good wage, we would be (rightly) in trouble for breaking the rules.
If the judge has decided that rules have been broken in this case - and we do not know what rules those are or why the women are being labelled as "not credible", that is where we are commenting in the dark then he is bound to follow procedure.
It is very likely that there is a case to be made here for mercy. leniency, compassion - call it what you like - but that has to be made as an exception, otherwise there is no point in having rules at all - just a big bag of money with someone giving it in handfuls to all who hold out a hand would be all that was needed.
Teacher 11 if your Dad had died and left your Mum all on her own with no family thousands of miles away and in her 90's & in poor health. Are you saying you would not bend the truth to have her near to you?
Politicians and Government civil servants bend the truth every day when it suits them.
None of us are perfect but I know what millions of us would do to help our love ones.
I wonder if the very elderly relative of a cabinet minister would be deported however illegally they were here. Actually I don't wonder at all!
I wonder if people realise the implications of what they are saying. If the, I agree, pitiable woman has no legal right of residence and her family have indeed practiced deception on her behalf to have her remain in the UK then technically she has to go.
Sympathy is being offered towards this white, elderly lady because she looks and sounds 'like us'. We look at her and think, 'that could be my mother.' Would there be such a furore if the person who overstayed their welcome and bent the rules was a 20 year old Somali male with a criminal record?
For what it's worth, as far as I am concerned, she can stay. Compassion demands it due to her age and her helplessness.
But then everyone has a story and a 'need' to remain.
This is the problem with the migration crisis which created its own heart rending metaphor. Those on the small boats on the sea were sunk by the attempts to rescue others and bring them aboard a boat already full. It is a horrible conundrum for those who feel and who think.
Most of us have read/heard of some foreign born person who has committed a terrible crime, such as rape or serious assault, to stay here as some judges think the ‘right to family life’, is an absolute, unqualified right. If that is the case, why is this very elderly, innocent person not allowed the 'right to a family life'.
Compassion is good, but there are usually reasons for bureaucratic decisions. As Wilma says, we are hearing the family side, but those who decided this are not allowed to tell us the reasoning behind it.
"Not a person of credit" is an interesting phrase. I wonder exactly what is implied by it? I think I shall look it up to see whether there is any enlightenment.
Ten minutes later - As far as I can see, "a person of credit" does not mean that their bank account is in credit, but that they are credible - to be believed. The judge does not seem to have found the lady or her daughter to be credible in their evidence, but that her presence here in somehow under false pretences.
That is only my interpretation, and I would like to know more, but I don't think that is likely at the moment.
I am uneasy about this case and think there's far more to it than we've heard from the family and the officials will be forbidden from talking about individual cases.
The notice telling the family she must return to SA says she is not a person of credit, in fact this has been said about both mother and daughter. Now that's not normal. Normally the mother would be allowed to join her daughter here in the UK, so there's something else going on.
I agree that people are deported every day where the rules override compassion, and the truth is every person hopes the media takes up their cause.
Usually I am a big softy, but I am not signing the petition. This is not about bureaucracy or compassion.
I've signed the petition. Compassion is needed here. We read enough about criminals demanding their human rights, and getting what seems to most people to be disproportionately favourable treatment as a result. Time to apply some common decency to this poor woman. Come on, Mrs May, do the right thing!
Compassion!
Compassion!
"I have never welcomed the weakening of family ties by politics or pressure" - Nelson Mandela.
"He who travels for love finds a thousand miles no longer than one" - Japanese proverb.
"Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence." - Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.
"When people's love is divided by law, it is the law that needs to change". - David Cameron.
Note the last one.
Do not need to belong to organisations to support them, Pamish; Hope not Hate, Right to Remain, Amnesty - all compassionate organisations.
Totally disgusting. This government has no compassion whatsoever. I have signed the petition and posted it on Facebook.
Looking forward to seeing the rush of Gransnetters joining up to the Movement for Justice.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nigerian-student-with-serious-illness-says-decision-to-deport-him-from-uk-is-death-sentence-a6884926.html
Here's another one who needs compassion.
Just caught up with this news item. I am so shocked that anyone could possibly consider sending this lady back to SA. And grove 1234 are you totally heartless?
I have signed the petition. Endorse contacting MP who is a human face one hopes. I have had very satisfactory results in the past with the help of my local MP who didn't once ask if I voted for him or canvass for my vote. he did what he was supposed to do as an MP and looked after his constituents against the ghastly beaurocracy of the local council. I just hope that this family's MP is not the awful sounding Caroline Spelman.
Glad the flight has been cancelled and pray that she is given permanent leave to stay in Britain.
Such compassion - not
Her daughter's husband has Parkinson's Disease and requires care. And where would they live even if they did all go to SA?
her family can always return with her .to ensure she has company and is cared for .
As she was born in South Africa when it was under British rule, and her husband fought for the British army in the war, perhaps she should have been given a British passport.
Maybe some people on here should show more compassion.
Nobody should be in Yarls Wood. There shouldn't be a Yarls Wood.
Anyway, they did apply for leave to remain.
"She has been in Dorset since February 2014 and made an application to the Home Office for leave to remain the country as an adult dependent on human rights grounds.
Cothill’s application to remain with her family was rejected by the first tier tribunal. An application for leave to the court of appeal was rejected by the upper tribunal in October 2015. In its reasons for the decision, it said that Cothill had “obtained entry to the United Kingdom by deception, and that she and her daughter arranged their affairs with the deliberate intention of making her removal difficult.”
The tribunal vice-president CMG Ockelton said: “Evidently neither of them is a person of credit and there is no reason why they should be believed … about the appellant’s circumstances.” "
Perhaps you should get your facts right.
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