Mild Female Genital Mutilation

Patriarchal societies often seem to have developed an "honour" culture to a greater or lesser extent. This often involves male honour getting tied up with female chastity (so you know who the father is???) i.e. controlling female sexuality. White UK culture not immune to this with kids getting into knife fights over "lack of respect" and children in school yards insulting each other by making adverse comments on mother's or sister's morality.
It demonstrates the power of group conformity/ social norms/ society / culture - whatever you want to call it, over human behaviour. It is very difficult for women in powerful and long established honour cultures to question the status quo because they have so little power.

The problem getting prosecutions for this vile procedure is that the girls have to give evidence against their parents. Leaving aside the obvious mental conflict they would then be totally ostracized by their entire community. I feel the practice in France of examining girls during Medicals the only way. If parents know it will be found out & they WILL be prosecuted maybe They will think again. It is unbelievable that this is happening inUK in 2016. All women should be creating merry hell until It is totally wiped out & new migrants should be aware that it will NOT happen here.Any girl going 'home for a holiday' should be examined before she goes & parents advised she will be examined on return & proscecutions will result. We have to get tough & do it now.

Petra is right in what she says. These people should live by our rules or return to where they came from. It is a barbaric custom. This is Britain for goodness sake. What depths do we have to sink to before we see sense and crack down on this and other nonsense going on around us.

Galen, I did listen to the radio play, I didn't want to, but I did. Horrendous, but what can we do when the law says one thing and then don't prosecute the people involved. Truly evil, and the women are complicit in this. How on earth someone decided that this was the thing to do we'll never know, but whereas we can change, they will not. Things evolve but their religion or ideas are stuck fast and can't be budged. I am truly concerned that the muslim religion has got quite a foot-hold in this country and we are just closing our eyes to it.

I'm with M0nica, Liaise and Petra on this. Our country, our rules. If people don't like it, they should remove themselves to a country which better suits their beliefs and customs. We should banish on these abhorrent practices, wherever they're from. These are not customs we should subscribe to or condone.

Don't know where the 'on' came from. Ignore, please

"I don't see misogyny has anything to do with it" I beg to differ Nelliemoser, this practice is to deny women sexual pleasure in case that turns them into wanton beings, and they suffer a life time of pain and complications as a consequence, whist there is a collusion by other women, it's nevertheless one of the many indignities inflicted by possibly the most patriarchal of all the religions. Certain sectors of male Arabic society is ridden with misogyny, the news is full of varying examples, and we should be very concerned that certain behaviours are now playing out in the west, whilst our governments keel over and let these things happen.

DD1 did her Masters thesis on FGM
Dd2 is a midwife
Both say any form of FGM iscan abhorrrence which should not bebtolerated
There are lots of once culturally normal practices which are no longer 'accepted'Why should this one be any different
Havent rft
I believe the most effective ways of stopping involve getting young men 'on side'

I quite agree

"Force parents to go on courses about the problems caused by this practice"
Would that be the same type of course that told young middle Eastern/ North African men that it's wrong to rape, and then they go on to commit these heinous crimes.

Craftycat at 09.20 is spot on. We need to have inspections of girls at certain ages and most definitely when they return from 'holidays' and prosecutions and tough penalties must be imposed when FGM has taken place on medical evidence alone.
The people need to push the politicians on this because they are clearly not serious about stopping FGM. This is not some small thing on which to be lax because it can be life threatening, health damaging and psychologically damaging to girls and women.

I'm not at all sure that this country (and I mean whatever government is in power) would have the appetite for forcing young girls to be medically examined.

Would it be all female children, or just those whose culture advocates FGM?

I think there'd be an outcry denouncing any such proposal as racist, and/or 'against human rights'.

"I think there would be an outcry denouncing such proposals as racist and/or against human rights"
Exactly, and look where that's got us. Think Rochdale, Rotherham, Oxford.
And please don't drag out the old chestnut that white men commit rape, it doesn't wash any more. People know what's going on.

Terribull, I agree with every word you have said and have thought the same for years. To me it is the ultimate beam in one's own eye that those on the left have spouted feminism but appeased misogynistic cultures to the degree that women, girls and babies are actually tortured and made to live like slaves.

Plain and simple.

FGM is by law illegal in the UK. It is also illegal to take abroad any British National or Permanent Resident of the UK. It is also illegal to help someone trying to do this. You can serve up to 14 years in prison for carrying bout FGM or aiding and abetting.

Our government of any colour should start to enact our law. The only reason this has never been achieved is concern for political correctness, fear of race relation problems with those who practice such a vile cultural practice.

If you want to argue the latter point please tell me why there has not been any prosecutions. It is an insult to our intelligence to say the authorities, schools, doctors don,'t have knowledge of it happening. We all know it happens but whilst we twitter on about it thousands of young girls will be subjected to physical abuse and the UK authorities continuing to turn a blind eye is seen as sanctifying the cultural practice by those who choose to practice FGM.

The weakness shown over this subject to be honest makes me ashamed of how far the UK has lost it's moral compass because of the concern for multiracial harmony. There are times when enough is enough and the poor girls need protection . It is severe physical abuse hiding behind the banner of culturalism but has no place in the United Kingdom. IMHO

Absolutely, POGS, but how to get the government to take stronger action?

Thereby hangs the tale Ana. No government of any colour has the guts to go for it.

Here we all are, women, condemning fgm for the brutal crime that it is. Why hasn't it been stopped? It's because men still run the country and fgm doesn't hurt them. They make the laws that condemn the practice but it's at once removed because they can't empathise with it like women do. We need equal numbers of women in parliament and in the legal system, including, nay especially, the police and better social and health education for both girls and boys. There also needs to be better training for all teachers who deliver health education which ought to include compulsory sex education, properly and factually delivered, with no parental right of withdrawal, regardless of religion or culture.
Rant over...but where will these women come from to challenge men for their jobs?

I heard something a little while ago and have felt too shocked to really discuss it. A friend has a son in his 40s who converted to Islam and has followed that direction for several years. He has had a number of "wives" and has 2 daughters. He announced that he much preferred Somali women (and indeed has had a Somali wife) because it is common for them to have undergone FGM and they are therefore "nice and tight" for sex! Makes me feel sick.

Vile auntbett.
P.S. not just an Islamic custom remember.

Lully dully you are correct. Some years ago as a student my daughter was teaching in a Kenyan christian school. She was invited by a teacher to a family 'celebration' only to find that his twin daughters had been circumcised and the whole family were feasting rejoicing and praying 'christian' prayers of thanksgiving while the 12 yr old girls lay in pain in another room. D was upset of course as were other UK students. Male Teachers and boys at the school were shocked that she hadnt been 'done' as 'no-one would wAnt to marry her'! An educated African wpman told her that she agreed it was wrong ans that education is the only answer as the tradition is so strong in that culture.

You are right Mary. It is down to education.

I went on a two day child protection course on fgm a few years ago when I was teaching. It was run by two strong, articulate women who had survived cutting . They were firmly of the opinion that education was indeed the answer.
It would send a real message if some proper prosecutions took place. In all the years it has been illegal, no-one has gone to prison. What message does that send ?.

I can only imagine how dreadful sexual intercourse or childbirth must be.

This will not be the first time I have misread or misinterpreted a thread title.
I was disappointed that what I thought was March on Leicester did not involve banners and songs, now I find this thread is unfortunately not entitled "Male and female genital mutilation".
Not even " Daily Mail.... Etc"

Well, what can we do about it. There have been petitions, leaders swearing that they will stop this, women standing out and still....nothing. So many are frightened of offending certain groups. This country is slowly being taken over and then what? This is supposed to be a Christian country but so many bend over backwards to please the people that are coming into this country. What is wrong with them. I hear that Malala, sorry if I have misspelt her name, is hated by many, including women, in her own country because she stood for what she believed in. I despair, thirty years ago I talked with a young woman who was doing theology at university, I asked what was the point, she couldn't do much because only men were able to take part in the main. How wrong I was, a female bishop, brilliant, so why are we allowing third world people to behave as if they live in the middle ages, it's so wrong!

I am sick to death of appalling CULTURAL practices hiding behind and seemingly being protected by race and/or religious sensibilities. Why don't we allow human sacrifice as practised as a religious rite? Because it's WRONG.FGM is WRONG. It's utter madness that we are even having this discussion.