Mild Female Genital Mutilation

Indeed so - I have commented upthread how vehemently I object to male circumcision - and it is legal! The mind boggles as to how this barbaric practice is not outlawed. There is nothing racist about objecting to babies being mutilated, be they male or female.

I am always puzzled by circumcision - these are people who believe in god - how can they go against their god and suggest that he/she did not know what they were doing in making humans as they are? Good effort, but let's just trim a few bits off! - quite quite barmy and utterly barbaric. It makes me despair.

The mass examination of all girls? There are so many objections to that, but I'll just look at who, when and how much. It would have to be done by a female medical professional. Do we have the staff to do this for every girl in the country? When would it be done - in terms of age of child and position in the school year. Even in a one-form entry school, that could mean 15-20 girls, taking 5 minutes each - say roughly an hour and a half. When in the school day would this happen? Would the checks need to be repeated every year so that parents didn't just wait until the one-off check had happened? And how much would it cost to do this for all girls, and whose budget would it come out of - education, the health service, the CPS? and that's before you even begin to consider the effect on young girls of having this kind of examination

Abhorrent as I find circumcision and FGM, I don't want to live in a society where all children are forcibly medically examined at some arbitrary age. And anyway, all that would do would be to drive up the age at which these practices were carried out by those determined to do so.

Whilst I agree that education is the answer, I don't think we can afford to just wait for ideas to change. I would like to see a far more proactive pursuance of prosecutions of parents who allow their children to be abused in this way, as well as those who carry out the procedures if they can be identified.

I have to say though, that we as a society really need to sort out our attitudes to male circumcision unless we want to be accused of double standards. It may be a slightly lesser mutilation but mutilation it still is.

No to mass examinations. The mind boggles. I would have hated that as a child or a teenager.

It would be a draconian law that denied parents the option to refuse to have their children examined. I can't see such a law ever being passed.

Why couldn't we bring in the examining of young girls en masse? Ok, to 'equal' things up, perhaps it would have to be the examining of both sexes en masse. Is that really impossible? An annual medical examination up to a certain age for all children, regardless of race or sex , of which the detection of any genital mutilation inflicted since the last examination could be just one element, would surely not be outside the realms of possibility, would it?

Petra this is B* all to do with the Islamic religion. A lot of Muslims just happen to live in countries which practiced this centuries before Islam.

Islam started as a religious cult in (ca. 570–632 AD ) Mohammed was last in the line of Judeo-Christian prophets in about AD 610.

news.discovery.com/human/female-genital-mutilation-begin-121210.htm states that.

"This was not common practice in ancient Egypt. There is no physical evidence in mummies, neither there is anything in the art or literature. It probably originated in sub-saharan Africa, and was adopted here later on," Salima Ikram, professor of Egyptology at the American University in Cairo, told Discovery News.

Historically, the first mention of male and female circumcision appears in the writings by the Greek geographer Strabo, who visited Egypt around 25 B.C.

"One of the customs most zealously observed among the Egyptians is this, that they rear every child that is born, and circumcise the males, and excise the females," Strabo wrote in his 17-volume work Geographica.

A Greek papyrus dated 163 B.C. mentioned the operation being performed on girls in Memphis, Egypt, at the age when they received their dowries, supporting theories that FGM originated as a form of initiation of young women.

I wholeheartedly agree with those who are angered by this practice and want it stopped - now.

I am at a loss as to how it can be stopped - it is a very difficult law to enforce. You cannot go around examining young girls en masse - and if it is only confined to those regarded as being at risk, how do we decide exactly who they are?

It is so exasperating that we seem to have an unenforceable law - if only there could be a prosecution that led to to a punitive sentence that might send out a message to the people involved in this barbaric practice.

I am yet to hear anyone here speaking in favour of fgm. This emphasises the secret nature of the practice in UK.

FGM is performed by a local woman. It is not just a male inflicted custom. Women believe their daughters are not marriagable or clean with out cutting. It takes place across a swathe of Africa and does not depend on one religion.

Foot binding was driven out eventually so hopefully this will be too. It will take the strength of women with the support of men.

Ah yes ethnic sensibilities. Was it Voltaire who said you know who your rulers are. They are the people you can't criticise.

I wasn't singling out Islam. The whole point was to illustrate that it's a cultural practice that has become confused with a semi religious rite in order to give it validation and allow it to continue. It's a vile physical assault, it's child abuse of the highest order and just because it's been going on for a long time doesn't make it right. Why should these women who carry out the cuttings..urgh!!!..have to be "educated" in order to realise that they are inflicting horrendous pain and deep psychological trauma? Do they not know right from wrong at this most basic level?

Maggieanne. "I am truly concerned that the Muslim religion has got quiet a foothold in this country and we are closing our eyes to it"
I have been saying this for years and everyone thinks I'm crazy.

Patriciageegee. Your anger comes across loud and clear. It mirrors mine.
What angers me even more, if that's possible, is that we have women in power who could do something, but don't.

Patriciageegee. It is outlawed in Kenya now but these things are embedded in very ancient cultural tradition. Several posters have made the point that it is more likely to be stopped by education campaigns than anything else. The WHO needs to start a campaign. This practice is not confined to ISLAM .

I am sick to death of appalling CULTURAL practices hiding behind and seemingly being protected by race and/or religious sensibilities. Why don't we allow human sacrifice as practised as a religious rite? Because it's WRONG.FGM is WRONG. It's utter madness that we are even having this discussion.

Well, what can we do about it. There have been petitions, leaders swearing that they will stop this, women standing out and still....nothing. So many are frightened of offending certain groups. This country is slowly being taken over and then what? This is supposed to be a Christian country but so many bend over backwards to please the people that are coming into this country. What is wrong with them. I hear that Malala, sorry if I have misspelt her name, is hated by many, including women, in her own country because she stood for what she believed in. I despair, thirty years ago I talked with a young woman who was doing theology at university, I asked what was the point, she couldn't do much because only men were able to take part in the main. How wrong I was, a female bishop, brilliant, so why are we allowing third world people to behave as if they live in the middle ages, it's so wrong!

This will not be the first time I have misread or misinterpreted a thread title.
I was disappointed that what I thought was March on Leicester did not involve banners and songs, now I find this thread is unfortunately not entitled "Male and female genital mutilation".
Not even " Daily Mail.... Etc"

You are right Mary. It is down to education.

I went on a two day child protection course on fgm a few years ago when I was teaching. It was run by two strong, articulate women who had survived cutting . They were firmly of the opinion that education was indeed the answer.
It would send a real message if some proper prosecutions took place. In all the years it has been illegal, no-one has gone to prison. What message does that send ?.

I can only imagine how dreadful sexual intercourse or childbirth must be.

Lully dully you are correct. Some years ago as a student my daughter was teaching in a Kenyan christian school. She was invited by a teacher to a family 'celebration' only to find that his twin daughters had been circumcised and the whole family were feasting rejoicing and praying 'christian' prayers of thanksgiving while the 12 yr old girls lay in pain in another room. D was upset of course as were other UK students. Male Teachers and boys at the school were shocked that she hadnt been 'done' as 'no-one would wAnt to marry her'! An educated African wpman told her that she agreed it was wrong ans that education is the only answer as the tradition is so strong in that culture.

Vile auntbett.
P.S. not just an Islamic custom remember.

I heard something a little while ago and have felt too shocked to really discuss it. A friend has a son in his 40s who converted to Islam and has followed that direction for several years. He has had a number of "wives" and has 2 daughters. He announced that he much preferred Somali women (and indeed has had a Somali wife) because it is common for them to have undergone FGM and they are therefore "nice and tight" for sex! Makes me feel sick.

Here we all are, women, condemning fgm for the brutal crime that it is. Why hasn't it been stopped? It's because men still run the country and fgm doesn't hurt them. They make the laws that condemn the practice but it's at once removed because they can't empathise with it like women do. We need equal numbers of women in parliament and in the legal system, including, nay especially, the police and better social and health education for both girls and boys. There also needs to be better training for all teachers who deliver health education which ought to include compulsory sex education, properly and factually delivered, with no parental right of withdrawal, regardless of religion or culture.
Rant over...but where will these women come from to challenge men for their jobs?

Thereby hangs the tale Ana. No government of any colour has the guts to go for it.

Absolutely, POGS, but how to get the government to take stronger action?