How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

I thought that SEN pupils were not counted in overall results.

Back to the EU/Turkey problem, this is the latest.

openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-eu-turkey-migrant-deal-whats-in-it-and-what-it-means-for-the-uk/

I am jumping back on to previous posts as I came on to find links for a friend about TTIP.

I have to ask why those who want out think it will not be imposed on us by a Conservative government? It is just what they want - it is (as I read it) extreme capitalism so that capital over-rides democracy. I could be wrong but we are unlikely not to get it whether we are in or out as far as I can see.

Interesting article by Fraser Nelson on Cameron's tactics.

thatbags. Thanks for that, very interesting.
I liked the quote from the French intelligence chief: his country had become a victim of solidarity with the European Union.

Actually TTIP cannot be imposed on us by a Conservative government because they don't run Europe. Its the democratically elected MEPs that will have the final say - which may turn out to be a good thing.

ukhumanrightsblog.com/2016/03/24/human-rights-are-wholly-conservative-but-no-watering-down-please-angela-patrick/

Much more important than Fraser Nelson.

Hope so, JessM. Many MEPs are against TTIP. That is what is protecting us from it at the moment - that and the fact that they are the ones who are telling us what it is about, instead of it being completely secret until the agreement has been signed.

In the talk we had on the EU from a very knowledgable prof. the other day, he said that when the final details of the proposal are finalised it will no longer be secret. Up to that point MEPs can see the documents but not take copies.

Yes, my MEP has told me that. They are allowed to look at the documents in a library in Germany but not allowed to do or say anything about what they have seen. In which case, surely it's better to carry on campaigning without seeing the documents.

An article on the undecided, by Daniel Finkelstein. He seems to be saying that no-one can give fence-sitters objective answers to their questions in their search for 'facts', essentially because nobody knows what will happen if Out votes win in the referendum. He concludes with this:

You’ll just have to do your best based on a bit of common sense, your natural balance between adventurousness and caution, your decision about how much you respect the judgment of the people on either side and your view about Britain’s place in the world.

Hypothetical question to the remain posters. If you had a cast iron guarentee that if we left the EU, realistic tariffs would be put on Chinese steel imports, therefore saving 15,000? Jobs in Port Talbot.

I wouldn't trust any government guarantee. Apparently the Italians justify subsidising their steel industry by saying that their steel is superior quality to Chinese steel. We could do the same. The government could save the jobs, although it would mean that the price of steel for manufacturers would rise, whether we leave the EU or not. Personally, I think the jobs are worth saving, because it's not just the steel workers who will be affected, but the whole supply network. I also think that any country without a steel industry is vulnerable when the Chinese decide to raise their prices, which they almost certainly will when their manufacturing picks up. Once the skills are gone, we won't be able to train people to restart. I also think that the UK needs a long term strategy for replacing the jobs. We don't ever seem to learn, whether it's coal, ship building, steel or whatever.

Be too bloody late for Port Talbot Petra as negotiating tariffs with China probably in for a long haul of about 10 years.
Our current government do nothing to offend the Chinese because they see them as a growing export market (Scottish whiskey, Burberry handbags etc) and I'm sure the Chinese enjoy the spectacle of Osborne and Cameron kow-towing (i use the term deliberately!)
The steel situation highlights that our present government are an uncompromising bunch of right-wingers that believe in letting the market take the hindmost - Darwinian economics. If they had the sense to see that we need to hang onto some of our own steel producing capability until the storm has passed they would be bending the rules like other EU countries.
It is the same hard-nosed market-driven thinking that has stopped them from investing in building social housing.
Quote from The Guardian:
Campbell Robb, Shelter’s chief executive, said: “We are seeing a three-fold crisis in housebuilding at the moment. The number of homes being built is less than half of the 250,0000 needed each year just to meet demand, and within that, the amount of so-called affordable housing has also fallen sharply. But what’s most concerning is the drop in social housing – which has plummeted by over two-thirds since 2010. If these trends continue, there’ll be nothing left that’s affordable for people on ordinary incomes.”

I will vote to remain in EU.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/31/we-did-qe-for-banks-now-we-need-to-do-it-for-steel/

How to save Port Talbot, just as we saved the banks.

Did you know that London is home to 75% of the world's top paid bankers. I wonder why.

Sorry, Europe's not the world's.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/31/the-uk-is-home-to-more-than-75-of-europes-top-paid-bankers/

I imagine they want to stay in the EU.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/126128

For recall of parliament about Port Talbot, for those who want to sign.
Over 100,000 signatures already.

I agree with you durhamjen and we have "intervened" with the banks that "could not afford to fail", but lo and behold, there are still no bankers behind bars for their irresponsible activities.

I wonder why that is too

Fraser Nelson's piece you mentioned thatbags is an interesting read, mostly rubbish unsupported by more than one subjective source - a.k.a. "The Spectator", but I did find this point intriguing:

Nelson argued that: " So he [Cameron] could lay out the next stage: Michael Gove’s Bill of Rights, which would declare British courts free from any interference from the European Court of Human Rights. "

The ECHR - the Convention - has absolutely nothing whatever to do with membership of the EU. Atlee & Churchill signed the UK up to the ECHR in 1950 - unless Nelson is deliberately conflating the European Convention on Human Rights, with the European Court of Human Rights, whose responsibility is simply to ensure members/parties to the EHCR actually uphold these laws.

I doubt if Gove's "British Bill of Rights" would have anything like as much integrity.

On the subject of tax - agree with you durhamjen - Richard Murphy has more of a grasp of tax and finance than any of the Treasury team it seems - but that may not be the employees at the Treasury who are at fault. They have been starved of resourced - be it training, finance, or actual staff numbers - I can only assume that this has been deliberate.

Richard Murphy's book - "The Joy of Tax" is a revelation - it does make you a bit cross as well!

I signed petition too so glad to see it's reached 100,000. Having read lots of threads on here from in or outers, think am in agreement with Simon Jenkins in Guardian today......"People say they want facts; but in truth they want facts that demolish those who disagree with them". Can't do links but interesting article for both camps.

railman, so is the scrapping of the ECHR that is proposed by the current government a scrapping of Britain's part in the Convention or is it a proposal to opt out from under the auspices of the Court?

Found this article via Twitter today: The Liberal Case for Leave by Roland Smith. Long but interesting.

Those who wish to remain may gather a few more supporters today - most of the Premier League footballers will no longer be able to play in UK teams if we leave !! Will all need visas of some sort - I think there are almost no foreign players who could remain. I cannot do links. But I did read an article.

As to Port Talbot - my eldest DGS actually works there at the moment - he is almost three quarters through a PhD on steel production - Tata spent 13 million on new equipment for analysing the steel in some way last year - he is also part of the team validating this equipment - it is all to do with aiming to find ways of producing better steel more easily. That plant actually makes money as it produces such good quality steel. He tells me he should not be affected by this news. This is a good company who has been updating and spending money in UK for years and should have been supported sooner. I feel so sorry for the population of the area having all the uncertainty in their lives again.
This whole business has been left too long - the UK govt could have slapped on tariffs to keep the lower quality Chinese steel out - other EU countries have ways of doing it - and hopefully if they were brought to book by the EU it all would take so long the crisis would be over.
It is the same with benefits - our conditions for applications to have benefits could be adjusted by the UK govt in such a way that Britush people would not be discriminated against and economic migrants would need to wait - France does not give them straight away. The main problem us having dopes in Govt!!!

I think foreign players outside EU have to be sponsored and have work permits at the moment, so presumably same would apply if we leave EU. There are certainly plenty of African, Asian players etc playing here.