How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

We were told that if you can crumple the plastic and it stays crumpled it can be recycled, if it doesn't stay crumpled then it can't

(CC adviser with some fancy role title).

I never knew that, Jalima. Thanks. It's amazing what you can learn on here.
I just put all plastics in the recycling, as they sort it at the centre anyway. Better than putting the wrong sort in landfill.

Recycling rates are to do with the EU. EU regulations say what we can be fined if we do not recycle and put too much into landfill.
Can you imagine how long it would take to sort all that out if we left. It would not be at the top of anyone's list.

I do hope the tax avoidance scandal surrounding Cameron isn't going to scupper the in vote. There has been suggestions that the voters might " punish" him.

The leaflet has caused quite a stir

Spending £9M of taxpayers' money on propaganda was bound to.

Of course ana

Oh well, if the expensive leaflet drop causes people to 'punish' Cameron by voting to leave.... Money well spent IMHO.

He should have used his Dad's money, i.e., the tax that should have been paid rather than the tax that was.

The opinion is which will please all the outers that he and GO are making an absolute pigs ear of all sorts of issues lately.

It would be ridiculous though if this such important issue is not decided on what people see as the facts though

Absolutely agree with you on every point!

I don't honestly think it will make any difference one way or t'other ( the leaflets).

theconversation.com/what-has-the-eu-ever-done-for-us-57248

A very interesting article about all the positive reasons for staying in the EU, at a cost of £260 per household per year.

Do you think there will be another Monty Python group asking that same question in a couple of thousand years' time?

Definitely not Monty Python on www.theconversation.com , Jalima.

The question is whether there will be any humans in two thousand years time, with climate change accelerating as it is.

I have been trying to glean as many facts as I can, and my MP is publicising the views of both sides on his website and this has been helpful - as well as Gransnet of course!

I am beginning to come down on the side of OUT for the following reasons:

- legitimacy of EU laws and institutions. I think this is sightly dubious.

- the weight of bureaucracy with the inherent potential for corruption

- feebleness of UK voice within EU – the argument that it gives us a say over things is untenable. And I can't see that the new negotiations have achieved much.We have been in the club for a long time and have not been able to influence those aspects that we dislike to any meaningful degree.

The problem is of course that no-one has ever left before, so the potential outcomes are purely hypothetical. I think the IN vote is likely to win as their propaganda is pure scare-mongering and people will be concerned. However, I am also concerned that the unpopularity of some government policies (if they deserve the name!) and of Cameron himself might make people vote OUT for the purpose of kicking him in the balls rather than on the facts (such as they are).

Danial Hannan in the Daily Mail this morning giving us some facts.
" You can make at least £800 a week on your air fares"
" you are given £3,500 a month for ' incidentals' like post and petrol"
Your office and all you need is provided, you don't use the £3,500 a month for these things. You don't have to provide receipts, just your bank details.
There are 785 MEPs
I make that 49 million 926 thousand. This doesn't account for wages.
I know it's small fry in the great scheme of things, but this is MONEY FOR NOTHING.

Fascinating 'facts' there petra - but this is Daniel Hannan making these proposals isn't it?

Is he suggesting he can "make" those expenses, or is he legitimately claiming approved expenses? Where does he get the figures from I wonder?

If the words politicians and 'facts' are combined in a sentence, I think the 'facts' become questionable. And, the 'Daily Mail' has no axe to grind either

luckygirl In your post you suggest the UK has a feeble voice in the EU and does not have much of a say.

Maybe this is deliberate? After Storm Desmond, South Lakes MP Tim Farron shamed Cameron into putting in application for 'emergency funds' from the EU, for flood relief.

To cap it all, our jolly decent government chaps have still not provided any details to allow the funds to be provided.

The A591 is still not open - 5 months later.

Is it because the "Judean Peoples Front" and "Peoples Front of Judea" are still fighting one another to see who can pay for the flood damage first - without EU intervention

There are 28 countries in the EU. The UK has nearly ten per cent of MEPs.
We have more say than many other countries, or we would have if idiots had not voted UKIP MEPs who do not vote.
Blame UKIP for us not having a big enough say.

Undoubtedly some of what the outer criticise the EU for is justified whilst other criticism is based on myth, however I would be much less worried if those outers were absolutely clear what the UK would look like in 20 years time. That is what I find so worrying. Many of us on gransnet won't be here but our children and grandchildren will - God willing - it is an enormous gamble that many on here are prepared to take but without for them any of the consequences.

In voting to leave then I think in all conscience you must be absolutely satisfied that the odds are absolutely stacked in the UKs favour, and be able to point out why. I have yet to hear those who want to vote to leave outline the UK of the future, they are much more concerned with critisicm of the present.

The inners accept much - not all of this criticism - but are also aware that a future UK is stronger, more secure and more prosperous in the EU.

Railman

What is Daniel Hannan 'proposing'? The facts are easily available for viewing.

MEP'S pre tax salary is €8.213.02 per month. (1.7.2015) .

MEP'S pensions start at age 63. The pension will be 3.5% of the salary for each full year's exercise of a mandate but no more than 70% in total. The European Budget pays for it. Controversially they have to agree to promote and defend the European Commission to receive it. That's why there is the point continually raised over the likes of the Kinnock's, Peter Mandelson et al and there view over Brexit as they are basically the mouth piece of the European Union, they are contracted so to speak to be so by taking their pension from the EU.

MEP'S allowances.

General Expenditure Allowance is €4.320 a month.

Travel Expenses for duties carried out in Brussels or Strasbourg , reimbursement is paid for travel up to the ' D business class ' , first class rail fare , €0.50 per km for car journeys and expenses such as reservation, baggage handling, tolls etc.

Expenses outside of their member State they will be reimbursed for their travel, accommodation, related expenses up to a maximum of €4.264.

MEP'S. Daily Subsistence Allowance is a flat rate of €306 per day, to receive that they only have to sign in one of the official registers ( think our House of Lords and how some of them behave!)

Thank you for that information pogs not entirely clear of your point.

whitewave we cannot be sure of what Britain will be like in 20 years if we stay IN either! very crowded is my guess and with the services collapsing all over the place.Actually, nobody can say with any certainty what things will be like either way.