How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Hindsight is a wonderful thing POGS

We successfully obtained an opt out for monetary union, so why should we not succeed with political union. To argue differently is to deny history. Of course we will get the opt out, the Brexit camp is talking nonsense, and they know it.

History has nothing to do with it. You nor I or any other poster can state it will or will not happen.

History does tend to repeat

You didn't read my post correctly pogs to reply as you did.

Dopey B. Johnson has got muddled about the UNITED STATES of America. He clearly has not looked at the history of America and how most but not all sovereignty is pooled.

Strange as he was born there, and after being leader over here, he can then move back for a few years and put himself up for president.
I'm sure they'll have him back. In fact I wish they would, now, as soon as possible.

They could have twins for president? Both as daft as each other.

Better than having one over here, and one over there.

They could build a wall mid Atlantic to stop any taint from the EU and try to charge us for it.

Maybe the Swiss banks make so much money out of their dodgy customers (dictators, criminals, etc) they thought the EU would cramp their style?
The Swiss allowed free movement of labour and then in 2014 voted narrowly to withdraw this. There have already been repercussions, particularly in the field of science:
The EU withdrew from negotiations about Swiss participation in the new EU scientific agenda, which resulted in the exclusion of Swiss students and universities from the Erasmus Programme, European Research Council grants, and downgrading Switzerland from associated to third country in Horizon 2020 calls.
This is a flavour of the way the EU will view the UK if it exits - a far bigger offence than that committed by the Swiss, who never joined in the first place.
UK scientists are overwhelmingly anti-exit.
science.sciencemag.org/content/352/6283/273.full

An excellent article, JessM.

"Without doubt, there are challenges for the European Commission as it struggles to support the rapid expansion of the EU. Tensions about debt crises and immigration loom large over Europe. But what would a Brexit reflect as far as the British attitude toward an alliance that represents the hope of further strengthening stability and security? Rather, the UK should be working with its European partners to make the EU the best it can be."

The last paragraph sums it up nicely.

Boris just spouts until someone clever corners him in front of of a camera and challenges him on numbers/details.
As for the nonsense about providing more money for the NHS if we exit-ed here is the BBC fact-checker summary:
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36040060

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/16/cameron-wouldnt-last-30-seconds-if-he-lost-eu-vote-says-ken-clarke

Here's a dilemma.
Who do you want as PM?
Vote accordingly.

If they were going to give more money to the NHS, they could do it now, instead of taking it away.
So that's another red herring, Jess.

some of us will vote out, others in, not much point continuing to argue the toss about it, but what I do find interesting, is that those on the left of politics are to a man [or woman] voting to stay in.Now, is this co-incidence on here, or is it for some other reason? More than one has said they prefer the MEP's and trust them over the [presumably Tory evil] government.Therefore, if we had Miliband in charge [imagine that Labour had not lost the last 2 elections] would they be saying the same thing?Maybe it's not the case that those on the left want to stay in.... just the few vocal ones?Discuss.

An interesting point rosesarered

which is not what is happening in the country with voters I have spoken to, or with politicians in general - they all seemed very mixed in their views across the political parties - and not what I remember from the original speeches about Britain's entry into the EEC all those years ago.

Just in the interests of fairness you understand:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3542889/Cameron-won-t-30-seconds-vote-Brexit-says-Ken-Clarke-warns-immediate-Tory-leadership-contest.html

History does tend to repeat
I will agree with that anniebach
The Greek, Roman, Ottoman Empires
The Holy Roman Empire
The Austro-Hungarian Empire

Sorry, too many to list
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Former_empires_of_Europe
Empires come and then they go

rosesarered, That's not true. The 'hard left' will vote to 'out' because they see the EU as a capitalist conspiracy. The Socialist Workers' Party newspaper is available online if you want to check it out.

People haven't said they trust their own MEPs (in my case 3 Conservative, 3 UKIP, 1 Labour). I have said I trust the European ideals of social democracy more than I trust my own MP. Nothing to do with Miliband.

Jalima, You forgot the British Empire. Some people still seem to think we're in control of it and can resurrect our old trading agreements.

daphnedil

"The 'hard left' will vote out because they see the EU as a Capitalist Conspiracy.

Precisely what Corbyn has been saying for years so why the change of direction to want to vote IN?

So Ken Clarke is talking to the Guardian and the DM, Jalima.

Two of my MEPs are Labour. The other is UKIP. He doesn't send me e-mails.
Guess which ones I trust.

You trust them just because they send you e-mails...?

Corbyn isn't 'hard left', however the right wing press might like him to be. He's also the leader of a political party and has a duty to respond to what his party wants. Not only that, but if you listen to his speech, he makes his case that if you want to reform something, you can't do it from the outside.

Business leaders (not exactly known for being left-wing), financiers and scientists/technologists all overwhelmingly want to remain in. Given that this group are responsible for most of British exports, I'm still to see a coherent response from BREXIT campaigners. Admittedly, it's a strange alliance.