How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

Durhamjen wrote "I am just pointing out that this government is now no longer democratic as it does not allow voting on important matters as governments used to. It's the cabinet that decides in many instances, not parliament."

Well, here is one 'important matter' that IS being put to the vote. Whether you like Cameron or not, he kept his word and is letting the people have their say on the EU. The referendum is long overdue and his party, like it or not, is the one to give it to the people.

You cannot deny that.

durhamjen. But he's the one leading the negotiations for our country. He's the one who told us he would fight for our country. He's the one who told us he'd got the best deal possible. But we know he lies.
Confused of Southend here.

POGS, at the risk of repeating myself, if we had not been in the EU there would have been a TTIP equivalent with the US/UK and we would have lost the NHS completely.
The secrecy of the TTIP has only been exposed because of MEP groups, socialist and Green, being against it. Even now they are only being allowed to look at the papers providing they do not divulge anything they see on them.

Have you actually seen how many of our institutions are run by US companies? How much of the NHS and DWP functions are run by US companies?
We say we want to keep Trident. It's run by the US.

No, I do not believe him on Europe.
There's not just one reason to stay in Europe; that's just being ridiculous.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/117927

This is how democratic the government is. People want a rerun of the election because of all the promises he has broken.
So yes, I believe he is a lying, conniving toerag.

durhamjen. So you think Camaron is a lying toe rag in everything he says, yet you believe him on Europe. Have I understood that right?

Sovereignty.

It doesnt take a genius to work out that being in the EU is far more undemocratic than being out of it.

I am at risk of repeating myself but here goes.

How do those who are insistent we stay in the European Union and have been strongly against TTIP NOT seeing that as a pricipled reason NOT to vote to stay in a beurocratic , undemocratic club such as the EU? Likewise please explain how you think the issue of TTIP and democracy go hand in hand in the European Union.

TTIP is for the most part reported as being a SECRATIVE , BILATERAL Agreement between the European Union and the USA. How is that democracy?

I'm sorry but the howls from the likes of Corbyn and John McDonnell over TTIP have been noted. We know that over the years they have walked through the lobby to vote against practically everything European Union related in Parliament. They had a principle and stuck to it. Until now. All of a sudden they want the UK to stay in a REFORMED EU . They have been vocal over the beaurocracy of the EU which has basically turned Greece into a basket case of poverty and high unemployment. There was no love of the European Union for years, what has changed?

They are repeatedly saying they have met with EU LEADERS and there is a will to reform the EU into a more SOCIALIST EU. Sounds good to those who worship at the alter but it is theory/ rhetoric not remotely a guaranteed possibility. The EU Leaders they have met are those from the EU Parliament that belong to the socialist grouping, in other words those who sing from the same hymn sheet already. Have they obtained this desire for a Socialist EU from the 28 Leaders of the EU countries and I have not read about it,

TTIP would or would not perhaps still go ahead if we were out of the EU but it would have to pass through our Westminster Parliament to vote on as it would still be a bilateral agreement between the UK and the USA . It would however be a true democratic vote and certainly not a secretive one. Sovereignty.

I didn't say it was. But I didn't say it was less democratic either. I am just pointing out that this government is now no longer democratic as it does not allow voting on important matters as governments used to. It's the cabinet that decides in many instances, not parliament.
We are supposed to be a parliamentary democracy, but we are not any more.

I said that being in the EU is the same. We vote for MEPs who vote on our laws as part of the EU.

How is being in the EU more democratic than not being in it?

Because the electoral commission is looking into it.
They do not need to make waves.

I always watch Channel 4 news. When this first broke it was mentioned that no other party is making waves. Why do you think this is? Because they are all at it.

TTIP is a threat to Democracy. The Conservative government would sign up tomorrow if it wasn't for EU opposition.

The decimation of the NHS is a threat to democracy.
We do not want it, but the government is determined to privatise it.

How many times does Cameron say he is doing something because it is "the right thing to do" even when the majority of the public do not want it?
That's a threat to democracy.

How many times does the government make a new announcement, about something important that will change lives, anywhere but in parliament?
That's a threat to democracy.

www.electionexpenses.co.uk/post/140808654473/lord-feldman-pledges-thorough-explanation-in

Very undemocratic.

The biggest threat to democracy is Cameron's government, in my view.
The way they try to circumvent parliament by not putting important things to the vote is undemocratic.

There certainly are some persuasive arguments for staying in. I've posted links to some myself. But still, it's the threat to democracy from the EU that most interests me and it's my judgments about that that will influence my vote. Trade treaties are what Matt Ridley calls "old hat"; we've been doing them for thousands of years. Democracy is newer and more fragile and needs more protection in my view, especially with the current rise of intolerance for sceptical views about almost anything: just look at what's going on on university campuses with their no-platforming and banning of anything that makes them feel uncomfortable.

As a family we talked about politics with our children, they hold roughly the same views as myself, but think one of them will be voting to stay in, I cannot understand why, but there it is, they have their own minds. Know this is a most likely a last chance for this vote, so it is very important to me, as it is to many people. If the vote is in, I will be that disappointed, but at least know it is what the majority want and just have to live with it. Have no time for the obnoxious, but very rich, Jeremy Clarkson.

britain-europe.com/2016/03/10/you-never-know-with-referendums-a-view-from-denmark/

Denmark has had 8 EU referendums.

www.actionaid.org.uk/blog/campaigns/2016/02/17/meet-3-activists-fighting-to-make-tax-fair-in-malawi

I said it wasn't an EU issue because the link given previously was about the way Britain buys from African countries, not the EU. If we leave the EU, it will not make any difference to treaties about chocolate with Cadbury's or Nestle.

Here's a very persuasive argument for voting in.

britain-europe.com/2016/03/09/a-letter-to-my-british-friends-for-europes-sake-please-stay/

Saw somewhere that Jeremy Clarkson is voting Remain. The Inners will be dead chuffed about that .

"Making tax fair is not an EU issue". Maybe it should be.

How do you know how many on one side or the other ?

If you are only 1inamillion, that's okay. Not many on your side.
My 40+ year old kids do listen to me about politics, as do their children.
Their partners do not have a vote as they are EU born.

I voted against joining the Common Market as it was then in 1975, this was the first time I could vote. I have never regretted that decision and will vote " out" in the referendum. I don't wish to be told what to do by politicians I have either voted for and cannot remove. I don't believe that we can't stand alone economically, Mervyn King the former Governor of the Bank of England has written persuasively on this today.
Europe need us far more than we need them. They will still want to trade with us. There is a large potential market outside Europe, Brazil and China for instance. As for defence we have culturally and linguistically more in common with the US.
We are the second biggest monetary contributor to the EU coffers, they will certainly miss this in Strasbourg.
All in all there are too many convincing arguments to leave than stay for me.
Have two children in their thirties who are also voting against, nothing to do with me honestly, they've never listened to me before!

Lots more on actionaid about the unfairness of tax treaties with poor countries.
Making tax fair is not an EU issue.