How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

But Obama will be yesterday's news by the time we actually leave the EU, if the vote goes that way, as it will be a 2 year process. He will be out to grass by then.

Yes, and not many in the UK will take particular notice of what he has to say (unless his views coincide with their own, of course!)

I can't see Hillary Clinton taking a different view from Obama tbh.
Donald Trump might think otherwise, of course.

We'll be the next US state for Trump. He'll take over all our golf courses, and send us all his Muslims.

Curious. Does DJ sit in an office surrounded by left wing tracts given her by the Remain office? She has a link for every occasion.

This, regarding Obama's arrogant intervention.

"Obama and countless other global politicians don’t worry much about what EU membership means for the British economy or British democracy.

They simply want us to put our national interests second and the wider interest first.

Would Obama allow citizens of much poorer neighbouring states to have full rights to live and work in their countries or let foreign courts change their laws? But that, apparently, is what Britain should accept."

I can see citizens of the USA being very unhappy if that was foisted upon them. I don't see the Mexican border being opened any day soon, do you, yet if we remain in Europe, millions will join from Turkey when it becomes part of the EU and the Ukraine will follow.....and guess who'll be expected to put millions more into the European pot to shore up these poorer nations.

At some point, we have to ask, how exactly do we benefit from this?

Well said Day6.

USA is made up of 50 states all of which have control over some of their laws and taxes etc -and they have three different time zones - they are already a UNITED States they don't need to add Mexico and Canada to become that. It is already more like the EU would become if they agreed to becoming a Federation of states - but I think that is not too likely in the immediate future.
JD just enjoys searching for information and links to keep herself well informed - she has more patience than most of us and reads what is said and then mainly gives us a synopsis - I for one am glad that I don't need to go searching myself but read the links if I feel like it.

Actually, I think most of dj's links are fed to her via the sites she's signed up to.

day6 let's look at some of your claims.

I am pleased that you acknowledge that countless politicians around the world have given the advice to the UK that to leave the EU is a risk that simply isn't worth the candle.

I would be interestedto know who in fact has not given that advice? In the political world, the academic and large corporate world

To claim that we can afford to ignore all this advice is arrogant in the extreme.

With regard to Obama and neighbouring states. I am afraid that you are comparing apples with pears. The U.K. is part of a group of nation states who have voluntarily formed an economic union in the form of a free market. The free market as we know allows for free passage of goods, people, services and finance. There is nothing foreign about it because we take part in it both in the market and law formulation. Nothing is being foisted upon us as we are signatories to all the various treaties. To read you post you would think the UK has been forced to accept everything -what utter nonsense.

With regard to Turkey. You have clearly given the membership of Turkey little consideration. I would challenge the assumption that they will soon be members of the EU. particularly with regard to their human rights record.
Once again the millions number is hung out to dry. If you moderated your language it would be more believable. Just how many more millions will the UK have to pay towards these poorer nations?

With regard to what and how we benefit - I have begun to list these in previous posts. If you wish I can continue to list the benefits, I have very little problem with that.

If I do so however, perhaps you could outline the future shape of the U.K.

Obama is only bothered about American interests, and what is easier for them.
Even if you are in the remain camp, you must see that.
I don't think we will be leaving the EU ( sadly) but whichever way it goes, wish it was over and done with, it's like the sword of Damocles hanging over our heads.

Day6, who were you quoting? You put quotation marks but never said where it was from. Not the Leave site, by any chance?

I have never been on the Remain website. I do not need or want to.
I inform myself in lots of different ways. The Remain site is not run by people with whom I naturally identify.
You, too, can inform yourself. I can give you a list of my bokmarks if you want.
Can I recommend www.fullfact.org. ? It's on my bookmarks. Believe it or not, even the government pays them to research for them. I have a feeling they do not like some of the answers they are given.

By the way, the comment about the golf courses was all my own work, like lots of other comments I make.

Yes I do roses but the two do not necessarily conflict.

Yes I also agree with wish it was 24th June or not depends on the outcome!!!!

Turkey is quite rightly getting angry because we promised them benefits if they would take asylum seekers back from Greece.
They have been performing their part of the bargain. The EU has not.

Roses, the US is in the middle of TTIP negotiations with the EU. Why should Obama jettison those in favour of a different agreement with the UK if we leave?
Of course he has US interests at heart.
I was surprised how friendly he was with Cameron. It's not his fault that the press was there in great hordes, wanting answers. I thought he was very diplomatic, considering the pressure.

How did we manage to trade,
have our own laws , control of our own borders.
Pre 1972?

Who has said you were on the Remain site? You are, by your own admission in the past, a member of various other organisations which send you information.

The world has moved on since 1972 Cherry and world trading is nothing like the same. On our own we would be a small fish in a huge ocean. Back in 1972 China had not emerged neither had places like Korea made much impact and we were a manufacturing nation. All very different to the position we would find ourselves in should we leave the EU.

For heavens sake, read the bloody thread, Ana, before you comment!

"Curious. Does DJ sit in an office surrounded by left wing tracts given her by the Remain office? She has a link for every occasion. "

Day6?
What's the point of agreeing with her, then forgetting what she's said?

Did I agree with her?

Keep your hair on.

Day6 said I was on the Remain site. Are you disputing that?
Actually she said I was being fed left wing tracts given to me by the Remain office.
Obviously site and office are not the same. Are you going to be ridiculous and argue about that?

Not really related to but interesting in relation to EU history. I think I said how Germany's economy took off almost immediately after WW2 and by the 50s the UK was lagging far behind. Which is the reason we decided we wanted some of the prosperity and join the EU. Well the reason apparently was that the Marshall Plan set up by the USA gave money for the expansion of European economies. Germany invested all hers in her industrial base, whereas clever old us who had the lions share of the Money decided we must invest it in pursuing our non existing Empire, largely in arms. We in effect totally squandered money that was given to rebuild our economy. How clever is that! The long period of austerity I thought was as a result of the war, was not necessary, we should have come out of it as quickly as Germany and ironically would not have any apparent reason to join the EU.

Except that we are still making and exporting arms, but now it's been privatised.

tompride.wordpress.com/2016/02/27/boris-johnson-bankrolled-by-hedge-fund-managers-set-to-gain-250m-a-year-from-brexit/

This is to do with the EU.
Did those who back Brexit know that they were supporting this?

tompride.wordpress.com/2016/04/15/leading-members-of-brexit-campaign-call-for-privatisation-of-the-nhs-and-much-worse/

So Boris claims .Obama said what he did because his father was Kenyan therefore Obama is hung up about old colonialism

I never thought I would agree with N Soames , Johnson is not fit to be
PM

Boris has got a problem, hasn't he, being anti-US and anti-EU at the same time.

"I am pleased that you acknowledge that countless politicians around the world have given the advice to the UK that to leave the EU is a risk that simply isn't worth the candle.

I would be interested to know who in fact has not given that advice? In the political world, the academic and large corporate world To claim that we can afford to ignore all this advice is arrogant in the extreme."

It's not arrogant to listen to BOTH sides of an argument whitewave. Many have said we'll be digging our own grave if we stay, that the EU is undemocratic, on the verge of collapse and that we'll be in a stronger position if we trade globally. I was reading today that Sweden will move to get out if our referendum takes us out of the EU. Most people I speak to feel that it is only a matter of time before Turkey, a Eurasian, mainly Islamic country will become part of the EU, given the way in which they agreed to play a part in the migration relief efforts.

You know as well as I do that every 'leave' statement can be countered with a 'stay' one, and vice versa. The credentials of most of those offering reasons to stay or leave tend to be legit....and unless you have time to wade through every newspaper article coming at us on a daily basis, (seems one or two people are able to do this) then all one can do is weigh up what's being said and decide which options they prefer. I prefer the OUT option, having read articles from both sides and listened to speakers from both camps.

It's interesting that Dave Nellist, a former Labour MP and now Chairman of the Trade Union and Socialist Coalition, a man who has championed the working class all his political life and a man with integrity, like Corbyn, is looking to lead the OUT campaign. He fears for the British workforce and for our economic future if we stay.

He feels Corbyn has changed his tune and has been cornered into the staying in camp, given only a year or so a go he was anti the EU. He also said that Tony Benn, a true Socialist, and again, someone I had so much respect for, would also be campaigning passionately and very vigorously for us to get out, had he been alive.

I don't often share many of Dave Nellist's political views but there is no doubting his integrity. He has to be one of the most altruistic, hard working politicians of our time. When someone as strident as Nellist wants out, you have to look at the reasons why.