Why do the SNP oppose new Sunday trading in England and Wales?

Both hubby and I have worked in jobs that did not pay enhanced rates at weekends, years ago.. Hubby was a policeman and I worked for a motoring organisation. both jobs entailed 24/7 coverage. The Police Force still does not have enhanced rates of pay for weekend working.. Police Officers should be prepared to work shifts and should be expected to work weekends and Bank Holidays. Enhanced rates of pay will be for overtime in accordance with Police Regulations. My job also covered 7 days a week and whilst we did get Bank Holiday and overtime enhanced rates it never paid enhanced rates for working weekends.

I only mention this as I think there is a myth that years ago ALL jobs paid enhanced weekend working rates. This is not true. I also think over the years, rightly or wrongly dependant on your view , there has been a gradual shift in the way we live our lives. Culture has changed and along with it came the 7 day working week as a matter of fact. If your belief is Sunday is 'the Lords day' then you would never have a job on Sunday probably anyway, you would want to observe the 'thou shalt not work on the sabbeth' . Mind you how that works with a vicar doing 'his job' has always puzzled me as he takes a wage.

There are people up and down the UK working weekends, why is retail classed as different I do not understand this and more to the point only in England and Wales. I know it's the same old argument but it is the crux of the matter.

We used to shop as a family in Edinburgh back in the early eighties. You'd have thought that if Sunday trading as it exists in Scotland were such a big deal (as is being suggested by some of the objectors in England and Wales), and that it causes the problems cited, that the law in Scotland would be changed. The fact that it hasn't been changed back suggests to me that Sunday trading simply isn't a problem.

This in turn suggests to me that the SNP is just playing some political game with their vote on this.

It's playing the same game that the government is playing.
Why did this not come under the Evel rules if that's what the government wanted?

If the 26 rebel Conservatives had voted with rather than against the Government then the clause would have passed by 312 For and 281 Against. If the Government had got their information and proposed amendment (for a year long trial at 10 locations) to MPs timeously then the vote might have been quite different. If the bill had been passed and gone up to the Lords, they (especially the C of E Bishops might well have removed the clause anyway. If, If, If - What a shambles, what a way to run a country.

DJ - Because the Bill related to England AND Wales.

Because it was a vote on a Petition against a government proposal.

Extract

"The petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons opposes government 'proposals' to devolve the power to set Sunday trading hours to local councils and introduce longer Sunday opening hours".presented by Labour MP Frank Field.

Had this petition not passed it would probably have moved on to Bercow to decide if this was a case for EVEL, a decision that would speak for itself probably or there would be a reopening of the West Lothian Question,. No doubt this will happen now and I think that is probably what the SNP hoped to achieve. Labour may well be seen as stooges in the game play by many.

Bercow denied debating time for a late compromise move to trial longer trading hours in 12 areas across England and Wales. It still falls on the fact the SNP who said they would be principled and not vote on matters that concern England and Wales only did exactly the opposite, hence there is so much annoyance and thoughts of shabby politics at play. Had the SNP stuck to ' their word ', which may now have lost all meaning , the government proposal would no doubt have passed and England and Wales would have the same rights as Scottish voters.

The fact the petition calls upon The House of Commons is not an open invitation for the SNP by the way if they elected to abide by their word to not vote on England/Wales matters. It obviously does apply to the SNP if they , as they have done, choose to vote on English /Welsh matters in opposition to their previously stated principal.

The House of Commons is the place where the the vote is to take place, Had it been a Lords petition it would have read The House of Lords. If you get my drift.

Seems strange we can shop 24/7 on line but are restricted on a Sunday. The SNP are just bloody minded on most things.

I think it would be simplistic to expect politicians and political parties not to play political games; they are part and parcel of the fabric of politics and political power.

I work for a large retailer who are about to change my working hours. I have no say in the matter. They have consulted me and noted my comments but they will do what they want to do. The majority of my colleagues who work on Sundays don't want to do it. It's a case of if you want to work there you have to do the hours they say. We work there because we need a job and most retail jobs will be the same. I certainly don't want to work on Sundays, it is the only day of the week the whole family can get together. It is already difficult as my husband works shifts. I'm pleased the law won't be changing for myself and my colleagues.

What is wrong with being a political activist? No one out there an activist for any other political party? Thank goodness Granny 23 can take the time to attempt to explain to other Gransnetters the position objectively without using emotive, and sarcastic language such as bxxxxr off, bleating and throwing their weight about.

We should all be alert to the power of propaganda irrespective of which political party we belong or our nationality.

Granny23, Google 'SNP Thuggery' and you will find pages of reports from all over the political spectrum including the 'Guardian'. I haven't made this up. These reports have made me more and more alarmed that our democratic system is being taken over by people who are getting their way because they are prepared to shout louder than everyone else and also prepared to use physical force. What happened to 'one man, one vote and accept the outcome'?

And the rot has set in. During the run up to the last election I found that all sorts of public and social fora were being used by one side in particular to abuse the opposition with insults and name-calling. Decent, ordinary, hardworking, taxpaying voters were being called 'fascists', 'racists' and worse. In Scotland, during the referendum those who supported the 'in' vote were being shouted, at, jostled and even attacked by SNP supporters.

It won't do. In June I shall vote for 'Brexit' and will calmly accept it when the majority votes to stay with the EU.

EVEL can be just English or English and Welsh MPs, so it could have come under EVEL if the government had wanted it to.
You have to wonder why it did not in the first place. Did the government want a bit of anti-SNP distraction?

Hang on, who are you to lecture others on how they should respond and react to a situation as they see it?! I think everyone on here is well aware of the deviousness of politicians whoever they are, the SNP being no exception, and people are perfectly at liberty to express those views in any way they wish, exactly the same way as politicians do! I appreciate that you are much more politically savvy than some of us but do try not to patronise.

It's alright all you out there that work 9 to 6 Monday to Friday has any bothered to ask the retail staff how they feel about having what's left of their Sunday taken away from them with extending opening hours I'll tell you what how about the banks opening till 10pm and Saturday/ Sunday too all the clothes shops estate agents in fact everybody all you 9 to 6 people too.
If you can't shop in the hours that there open your not managing your time but don't worry eventually you will get what you want and retail staff will suffer for it

Today there is to be a debate on the reinstatement of the NHS. I consider this to be far more important than extending the Sunday trading hours.
However, according to my MP, it will probably be talked out by a government stooge (not her word) because it does not have the full support of the government.

The Sunday trading was just a clause in a much bigger bill.

"Decent, ordinary, hardworking, taxpaying voters were being called 'fascists', 'racists' and worse." Sounds just like the political forums on Gransnet !

Scots who said they intended to vote to leave the Union got much the same reception in some places, and certainly got plenty of abuse on Gransnet - and still do.

“I can assure you that we have no plans to relax the Sunday trading laws. We believe the current system provides a reasonable balance”.

Quote from PM just before the last election.

Teacher I have perused Google as you suggested but found nothing bar unsubstantiated allegations. If the incidents reported by unnamed persons actually happened, where are the Police reports, the arrests, the court cases? It is a FACT that the oft reported 'egging' of Jim Murphy was carried out by a man who had a personal grudge against Murphy in his own street and was incensed when the man appeared. The egger was charged and the case heard in court which is why we know for certain that he was not acting 'politically' in any way. Also the 'Hounding of Nigel Farage' had nothing to do with the SNP. His (verbal only) attackers were a group of anti-UKIP students (many of whom were not Scottish)

Speaking as a lifelong Political Activist I must say that I was impressed by the mainly good humoured nature of the long Referendum Campaign. I attended some of the big rallies, thoroughly enjoying the music and speeches and felt comfortable and safe to take the DGC along. The only major outbreak of violence was the attack on despondent YESsers in George Square the day after the referendum which was perpetrated by far-right and sectarian groups of thugs who were in the main bussed and trained in from other parts of the UK.

Throughout my campaigning I have seldom been threatened though I have had my tyres slashed (blew out the next day and I skidded right across a main road in a rare gap of oncoming traffic) and also (same very fractious LOCAL election) colleagues had Labour posters superglued overnight to their car and bricks thrown from a bridge through the window of a moving car. These incidents were reported to the Police, culprits traced and charged. NB These were not official Labour activists merely young Yobbos looking for an excuse to cause trouble.

When doorstepping it is normal to have a bit of goodnatured banter with supporters of other parties - it is mainly non political people who object strongly to having their door chapped, can't say I blame them as I hate cold-callers myself - the always seem to arrive at inopportune moments.
Have been sworn at called a Nazi or a Scottish Nose Picker, had doors slammed in my face but only felt really felt physically threatened by a few Orange Lodge types. In summary - I do not think that dedicated members of any of the political parties (with the exception perhaps of the BNP) would be involved in extreme verbal or actual physical abuse as it would be counter productive for their cause. The culprits are generally those who would also cause trouble for homophobic, racist or no discernible 'reasons'

Good to hear from those who are already pressured into working on Sundays and felt this bill would make it even harder on their work/life/family balance.

Too many just thinking about their 'right' to sell, sell, sell....ie the big retailers and too many thinking there should be fewer restrictions on their 'right' to shop, shop, shop.

There are two sides to this discussion. As has been previously said, there are people who would like the opportunity to work a full day in retail on Sunday, those whose personal commitments don't allow for them to work during the week. At a big store locally, the staff are for the most part Sunday workers, and talking to some, they would love to work a proper day. So it's not just about wicked retailers flogging their staff to work when they don't want to. Years ago DD worked just on Sunday for an estate agent, the one day she could leave small children in the care of her DH. The money was useful, but her well being in every respect was greatly enhanced which was even more important.

Shop workers (possibly others, I don't know) have the legal right to opt out of Sunday working.
Clearly, that could make them unpopular with their employer and they could be put under pressure to work, but the employer has no legal right to force them to work on Sundays.

That's probably the reason for the Sunday workers!

Yes.
However, many of those who already work on Sundays, and receive a higher wage for doing so, believe that longer Sunday opening hours will mean the Sunday rate will be reduced to the same as every other day.

Has that happened in Scotland where longer Sunday working hours already exist in shops?