The Budget

How do we judge a persons disability? And what right do we have to judge?
We don't, but there are qualified people to do so and we have to trust them to make the best judgement.

I worry that the reduction of sugar in drinks will lead to more 'sugar free' drinks with nasty sweeteners

Where would these poor people be without help.

My daughter-in-law, who comes from Tanzania, was so surprised to find out how much benefit people get in the UK, when she first came over here and then they turn down African people, who have to find work to survive.

While attending the wedding of our son and his wife in Tanzania. There was a young man who was giving out the towels for people who wanted a dip in the swimming pool. He told me that he wanted to go into the forces but due to having a small scar on his arm, they wouldn't accept him. Also, he was only able to pay for two years education.

Also, last September, when my granddaughter started school, she was informed that drinks with a lot of sugar are not good for them, so this came just at the right time.

I think what you say in your first paragraph is understandable Roses but I do feel we need a national discussion. This would tie in to Galen's description of people being encouraged to claim and also Annie's "what right have we to judge. Unfortunately someone has to - but I agree, not us as individuals.

My feeling is that we have got too far away from the concept of an insurance into which we pay according to our means and claim according to our needs (I think I have heard that somewhere else ) but claim within set parameters. It is going on in the background but is not always something we can all understand. Perhaps that would seem to harsh for some but I think it would work both ways. If a government, as this one has done, decided to change the parameters it should be something we have a conversation about. I truly believe good communication saves a lot of problems.

I'm happy for you to have a hack at my views because I am still not sure how we can make this right. One thing I do believe though is the means and needs bit

Gracesgran I don't know if this will help, but you can read the details of the consultation and it's outcome here.

Appendix C gives the scoring system and the outcome of the consultation was to reduce the points for Activities 5 and 6. The government estimates the changes will affect 640,000 claimants.

rosesarered in no way am I condoning people who claim for something to which they're not entitled, but your comment shows how much our opinions on the kind of thing differ. I would rather pay more income tax than leave the less disabled to manage without. The truth is there is enough money in the government's budget to continue playing disability benefits to claimants. It is a political decision how that money is spent. How can you justify saying it is acceptable to take money from some disabled people and give more money to families who pay the higher rate of income tax because they earn enough money to do that?

How do we judge a persons disability? And what right do we have to judge? One of my sisters has Parkinson's, her husband is her carer, if she was single her Parkinson's would be the same but not her needs

Just read No 10 has said PIPS has weaknesses and a Tory has resigned over the treatment of the cut backs for the vulnerable , good for him , he doesn't live on planet Osbourne but in the real world

Unfortunately, some advice centres regard benefits as a money generating exercise and encourage people who stand no chance of qualifying to claim. When they are refused they then encourage them to appeal.

I have seen people walk quite normally into the court building, but suddenly develop a severe limp between the waiting room and the court! It disappears immediately they leave the building.
These are few, but they do happen.

There is no idea that people can claim disability benefit 'for no reason at all'
But there are 'layers' if you like, or levels, from the worst disabilities to the mildest.In the past, when money was more plentiful before the crash, it may well be the case that the people on the milder end of the scale got help, and now it has to be ramped up to the people who really must have it, getting help.
On a slightly different but connected way, 15 years ago I needed crutches and then had a stick to walk from the NHS.When I no longer needed them I returned them to the hospital who were reluctant to get them back, it was just a nuisance, or so it seemed, and didn't want my name and address, I imagined they would do, but no.Two years ago my DD needed crutches for a while and when she returned them, they wanted all her details, to 'tick her off the list.' I think that now money is tight, more care is being given all round.People with severe disablities must always be the ones helped first.

Galen, it is always interesting to read your knowledgeable input. Do you think there is any way that the idea people can get these benefits for no reason at all could be countered. Could there be some sort of education to say what exactly people do get them for?

Daphnedill it will be interesting to get some more insight. Thanks.

I'm wondering if the number of appeals will increase? Not that it'll concern me as I have to retire next April.

Just adding a bit to the disabilities issue....A much higher percentage of prem babies have disabilities than average. Many of the parents of these children (rightly) claim DLA for them. Twenty years ago it was almost unheard of for a baby under 32 weeks to survive. Improvements in neo-natal and postnatal care mean that many more are surviving. Would people honestly let them die or have them euthanised at birth if disabled?

Gracesgran, I'm going out in a few minutes, so don't have time to give you the lowdown on academies. I'm a former teacher, a current parent and am still very much involved in education. Academisation is a smokescreen and avoids the real issues in schools and the perception of education, which are nothing to do with a change of name and governance. If I have time later, I'll get back.

Good points Jane10 and GillT57. It is a difficult subject but we do need to discuss who gets support and what support they need.

Yes good point Jane10. Many people with severe disabilities, especially children, would have previously lived in care homes or such, there was a residential school near to where I grew up which looked after children with mobility issues such as Muscular Dystrophy. Also, medicine is making great leaps, and people who have suffered drastic injuries are now thankfully surviving and going back home to their families. These people need help in many ways, in adapting their homes, changing bathing facilities etc. Slightly off topic I know, but was feeling rather uncomfortable with some suggestions on here that there was some kind of mysterious increase in claims for DLA or PIP........

From a personal point of view, it has been a fairly neutral budget for me, I already have small business relief in place as very small premises, but happy at the principal of a slightly more even playing ground when it comes to corporation tax. I am at the position at the moment of paying just a couple of thousand a pounds a year less in Corporation Tax than Facebook, work that out.....but I won't hold my breath. Glad about increase in tax bands but not if it is at the cost of somebody else's mobility vehicle. I dont need the money that badly.

I really do believe supporters of this budget and this government who state the disabled must be rolling in money or I don't believe disabled people are having money taken from them believe it, how else could they support this government's treatment of the vulnerable

I think the changes to Business Rates are a good thing Cambia. Many must have been wondering how they would be able to continue even though I am sure everyone must think a rise in the minimum wage is important.

I also notice there is a tax free allowance for micro businesses of £1,000 which - as a crafter - I can see being worthwhile to some including some who could otherwise not work. I do wonder if some businesses that shouldn't will disappear into the black economy (cynical me )

I am concerned too daphnedill about indirect effect. Will the loss of Business Rates to councils cut care yet again?

Just you much will the ideological change to Academies cost both in money and in a lack of oversight. I did hear something about these Academies not now requiring parents on the Governing Body. I don't know enough about this so would be interested to hear from anyone who does.

Annofarbia if you are a genuine contributor to this intelligent forum you are welcome to make your comments. Silly and somewhat offensively flippant comments about I don't believe they are taking wheelchairs or money away from seriously disabled people! It's just myths by Socialists are not contributing to the discussion in any way

A good point Jane10

I was interested to see a previous comment about the increase in number of people with disabilities. Clearly people are surviving longer than they might have previously but there's another aspect to it too. In the past so many people with so many and various disabilities lived in institutions where the great British public just didn't see them. There was much less awareness. Now the institutions have closed and people live in supported accommodation or with families all claiming individual benefits for all sorts of aspects of their care, these costs are suddenly much more noticeable within the general 'welfare' system. I don't know how this institutional care was funded previously- charitably I suspect but its just something else to think about. Sorry. A diversion I know but I just got thinking!

Sorry! I meant business rates, not corporation tax.

This budget will have no direct effect on me personally, apart from the abolition of Class 2 NICs. I'm trying to find the small print, because I have a horrible feeling that this might affect my pension and I need to know if paying voluntary Class 3 contributions will make a difference.

Although the budget will make no difference directly, I have concerns about indirect affects. I happen to think that the most vulnerable should be supported and I am very worried about the ability of local authorities to do that. Corporation taxes have been cut for small businesses, so areas which rely on income from SMEs will see their income fall. In my area we have no police station, local hospital, available social housing and a number of other publicly provided services are being threatened, thus undermining a sense of community.

I think the savings plans are an abomination. People receiving in-work benefits will have to find a way of living on fresh air if they are going to save. The under 40s who will benefit from the Young Person's ISA are those with parents and grandparents who will welcome a tax-efficient way of saving for them. What about the rest?

The plan to turn all schools into academies is misguided and ideological.

There is no justification for raising the threshold for paying Higher Rate IT.

The income from sugar tax, if distributed evenly to all schools in the UK, will enable them to buy an extra football! I doubt, in any case, that it will put people off buying sugary drinks and why not put it on fruit juice, which has more sugar than Coke?. I doubt very much if it will make any difference to childhood obesity levels. It was a giimick and nothing more.

I think it was a bad budget, which ignored the pressing needs of the country and continued the trend of shifting wealth to the those who are already wealthier than average.

It would be interesting to see figures from real people affected by these cuts and how it affects them. I agree that savings have to made. Personally I think the Conservatives are overall doing a good job.

As a small business struggling to pay the living wage to my staff which I fully agree with, I am very grateful for the help with business rates. I want to pay my staff a reasonable wage but as overheads keep rising and income doesn't, it would soon have come to the point where I just sell up, take life easier and my staff lose their jobs. Hopefully there is now a little light at the end of the tunnel. Having been a family business for fifty years, I really cannot recommend it to my children to carry on sadly. Hopefully too the playing field will be levelled with the large companies paying the same amount rate of tax that as a company we pay and not a much smaller percentage due to perfectly legal tax evasion, which means they can sell things much cheaper. I know we all shop online but how sad it will be when that is all the choice we have.

As regards the sugar tax.

I think this is a waste of time. Kids will still drink it if they want it, and parents will probably still buy it.

Jamie Oliver seems to think he is some sort of messiah.

What about the assiciation of sugar in cakes and biscuits.
That subject seems to have been largely ignored.

The great British bake off has a lot to answer for.

Nothing has ever been mentioned about all the sugar used in these programmes.

I would think that childhood obesity is largely caused by food stuffs.

All of us WASPI women were desperately hoping for some transition help in budget but nothing for us. Those of us redundant after 60 and unable to get jobs until new pension age of 66 are left without income for that time. Jobseeker only lasts 6m and if you have small savings that's all you get after paying full NI for 43 years. I feel betrayed by Gvmt. PLEASE everyone if you haven't already, google and sign WASPI petition. Thanks.