The Budget

A rather naive comment carol. We're all well aware of that. I pay my taxes which are spent by the government and they take cash from my daughter and give it to my son.
I know full well they aren't doing that with their money!

Oh dear, part of the bascic rules of humanity is to help those less fortunate, every world religion will back this up as will anyone with a conscience. People with disabilities already feel helpless in many ways without being labeled as scroungers and 2nd class citizens. It can be a massive effort to claim anything and the mental anguish that acompanys it is debilitating and exhausting, the goverment today have caused more discrimination toward disabled people than anyone. That extra disability money changes a person's life dramatically, it allows people choices,it helps otherwise housebound people to get out and assists them with help and personal care. My vote always will go to a party that shows compassion for society . If you've never experienced disability its near impossible to understand it. but compassion is a basic human emotion

Why can't contributors to Gransnet simply say what they think and leave others to their own viewpoint?

Why Witchygran and what insults? Forums are all about discussion. Surely those who wish to discuss should be able to do so but, if you put forward a view in any discussion, on here or in RL you may find someone asking you to look at the facts differently, adding additional information or simply disagreeing. It is not unreasonable to engage in critical thought, study and reflection about society and how it is run and I am grateful to those who add to my knowledge.

Everyone seems to miss the point that the government doesn't actually HAVE any money.

I don't really think they do carol49cat; I think it is just a shorthand. It is also the case that the uses for the taxes are decided by "the government".

As soon as a saw the header "Budget" my heart sank. Why can't contributors to Gransnet simply say what they think and leave others to their own viewpoint? We live in a democratic country, where everyone has the right to their own opinion, so to descend into insults turns it from a conversation into a verbal brawl. Such a shame.

None of us can really alter anything once a government has won an election and is in power. Governments of whatever colour have our money and will distribute it according to their plans. As has been said, easy to criticise when you are not the one having to make the decisions, but having grown up in East London in a very poor environment with little money, I still fear the Labour party getting into power and going all out to destroy what they see as 'enemies' in the City. Commerce is about all we have left to keep the boat afloat - and wasn't it Adam Smith who said you cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.....or borrowing to the hilt, as has been mentioned.

Anyone with a heart would not want to see those in genuine need suffering cuts in their income, but the other side of the coin is that the money has to come from somewhere. How about an all out campaign to pursue those companies that don't pay taxes? How about removing some of the pointless layers of beaurocracy in the NHS, and spend on nurses and decent support for the GENUINE disabled in our society.

I thought the help for business in lowered taxes and business rates was good as was the emphasis on saving and the younger generation. I am against sin taxes for various reasons but the fact that the sugar tax was only on fizzy drinks, which no one in their right minds would either consume or give to their children, seemed harmless enough. However, levies for particular purposes is somewhat 'centralist' and to be avoided. I suspect Osborne was playing to the gallery as with so much else he does.

I don't believe they are taking wheelchairs or money away from seriously disabled people! It's just myths by Socialists.

Everyone seems to miss the point that the government doesn't actually HAVE any money. The money it spends comes from taxing the incomes of those who work or invest and taxing spending, plus whatever it can borrow. This is true of whichever government is in power.

To moan about the whole budget is just silly.

Surely only as silly as saying it is good and then not being prepared to discuss what and why Roses, which is where you started. Why do you have to call people names?

The sugar tax on drinks seems like a start on the machinations of the food processing industry. It will be interesting to see what actually happens.

All that I do know, is that over the last 20 years the disability claims have shot up alarmingly, why is this?

Perhaps more people are surviving with outcomes that they would have died from in the past - entirely possible I would think. I wonder what your answer would be? If people should not be receiving benefits it is only right that they have them removed but them why are so many people wining them back when they challenge them in court?

How much money do disabled get if you are saying they have been cut by £12 billion? They must have been rolling in money!

Well said!

I agree with Osbourne, we should stay in the EU

I am amused the money taken from the sugar tax is to be spent on sport etc in schools yet this government cut back on money spent on sport facilities in schools

They're going to moan though. I'm going to be worse off personally but can see what the govt is trying to do overall so am just accepting it. Just one individual's view like most of the general anti govt views and just as valid.

Rosesarered, can you excuse taking away mobility from people with spina bifida or MS, what facts do you not know about these cruel illnesses

Not Tory bashing, angry that the vulnerable are those who suffer whilst the affluent flourish, perhaps you disagree with the daily mail that this budget is good for middle England

Do you agree with the money given to the private rent landlords yet no social housing built

Injustice makes me angry and if you considered being angry seeing the vulnerable suffer as Tory bashing so be it

Anything that can be done to make manufacturers use less sugar is only to be applauded btw as is money put into flood defences.
Unsure about schools becoming acedemies, that seemed to me, the only thing people could reasonably complain about.
To moan about the whole budget is just silly.

It's hardly worth anyone ( who doesn't vote for Labour) commenting on this thread, it always deteriorates into the usual dreary round of Tory bashing.
Taken as a whole, I stand by my comment that it was a good budget for this time.On the subject of disabilities, hard to pick out individual cases and we don't know all the facts in each case ( reporting isn't always unbiased!)
All that I do know, is that over the last 20 years the disability claims have shot up alarmingly, why is this? This is not taking into account any claims by the armed forces, and soldiers who have lost limbs ( in fact I think ALL governments have treated veterans badly going back a long time.)
A member of my extended family has disabilities, which are re-assessed every year, and she has not suffered from anything taken away, and no, she was not 'lucky' as luck does not enter into it.

Wilma, the woman with spina bifida should not have had to appeal, appeals take months and is stressful, the majority on the right must support it else Osbourne wouldn't have brought it in

If this whole issue is to be seen in terms of right-wing and left-wing then I find myself in a strange place - almost a microcosm of the big situation!
My son and his fiancee are in the best position - better off because of the tax changes and the new isa arrangements. They're in the right age group and are able to save.
BUT the left-wing side of me finds it strange that a young couple who are already in a very fortunate position will benefit because his own sister will probably lose out on her much-needed disability benefits.
A bit like asking her to set up a direct debit into his account each month?

It's not just the left who are unhappy with the changes to disability benefits. A group of Tory backbenchers and the Tory think tank Bright Blue are urging GO to rethink the changes.

Also, the Conservative Disability Group has posted a message saying its website was “temporarily closed owing to Disability Cuts and the resignation because of these of Webmaster Graeme Ellis”. In today's Guardian, Ellis said he was a lifelong Conservative supporter until Wednesday afternoon but the PIP cuts were the last straw. He said his message to Conservative MPs thinking about rebelling was: “Please do it, show that you care and you will end up saving lives.”

Analysis of yesterday's budget shows the biggest single revenue raising measure is the changes to disability benefits. Over this parliament £4.4 billion will be saved from the cuts.

AB there are many Motability examples in the media at the moment. Yesterday I read about a woman with spina difida who is also an amputee. She won her case on appeal.

It seems M S can now be cured, a young woman with this cruel illness has had her mobility car taken from her , perhaps those who agree with this expect her to crawl the pavements ,

Granddaughter you are right to worry about the treatment of those who have been injured fighting in our name but we should also worry about all those being affected. With a number of family members who are ex-forces I think this area does need highlighting.

The difficulty with this government being so slammingly unfair is that those who oppose what they are doing then sound as if we don't think there is anything wrong with the benefits system and it obviously needs constant updating.

At one time you had a mobility car for life because nothing else could be done to help you. With the increase in hip replacements, for instance, you may no longer be in the same position. But we need to be fair, and perhaps more importantly to explain what that fairness is. Taking the mobility car away from someone who still needs it is just cruel. If we believe we need - because we are so poor as a country - to set the bar higher when deciding who can have help we need the government to have that conversation with the country. This government seems to be setting the bar higher not because they don't think we can afford it but because they want the rich to pay less to support others - nothing more or less as far as I can see.

It is very annoying to be put in a category that says "all you would do is spend" when I want to be in the category of "all you would do is spend wisely and fairly". The only reason the Conservatives are able to say the first is that they come from the "all we will do is cut" point of view as far as I can see.

Getting very confusing , one right winger refuses to answer a polite question I asked and in another thread another poster on the right answered a question put to me for me.

Great post Gracesgran and the quote is so true

I must admit I find the "it's a good budget but I won't say why I think so" is a little odd. I can only conclude that this is a political comment, i.e., I like their politics so I will like anything they say. This would explain the "rabble rousing" comment too.

I don't feel like "rabble" and do feel I have commented on the substance of the budget and, if there are people who only comment politically, I do feel happy to look at this economically and the economics - as I understand from this mornings interviews - that John McDonnell will be talking about today are those many economists think will not only be fairer but actually work. They are based on the economics many accepted, which were originally put forward by the man who changed modern macro-economics from the 1930s making the best of and for all people not only the rich.

Just one quote that those who agree with the extreme and unfettered capitalism this government espouses might consider - from Keynes:

Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

Thank you durhamjen, you are correct I should have said worse off than the majority of the abled bodied reading columns such as GN.

Last night I spoke to a member of the family who is a conservative Councillor in Cheshire and served in the Army. He is disgusted at the cruel treatment of those who have lost limbs or suffer other disabling conditions.
I just cannot get my head round how anybody no matter what their political views, can justify cutting funding for people with severe disabilities to help finance the extra resources for high earners.

I am pleased that so many who are far more articulate than me have also expressed similar concerns on these threads, thank you.