Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

Tricia.

Yes I am well aware and I am sorry to say in my opinion neither Israel nor Palestine can be seen as not being aggressors.

However I can differentiate between the acts between Israel and Palestine, speaking for or against either and the abuse of a personal nature toward Israeli's and indeed Palestinians. There is as I mentioned previously a blurred line between stating you destest Israel over say occupied land and calling a person of Jewish faith a Zio, preferred term of the Ku Klux Klan. Or refusing to engage in dialogue with another human being because they are of the Jewish faith etc.

Whilst my OP is in the News and Politics thread that's because that forum is relating to current affairs, although some seemingly deny that. I do want to make it clear I am concerned over the rise in Anti Semetic behaviour, not only in the areas mentioned but world wide, just as I am in the rise of Anti Muslim rhetoric. If people do not challenge or acknowledge this is happening then God help us.

Then POGS it is a pity you hadn't started a thread on anti semitism and not name one political party and universities , this leaves the impression it is a serious problem only in one party and only in students

POGS, I absolutely agree with you about the rise in anti-Semiticism. I only really know about Europe. The rise in anti-Semiticism, especially in eastern Europe is frightening and tends to go hand-in-hand with all forms of racism.

I don't think the line between criticism of the Israeli government and anti-Semiticism is blurred, although it would appear that some people make it blurred to suit their own agenda. It's a common tactic to accuse somebody of anti-Semiticism whenever they express support for Palestinians or criticise the Israeli governmen'ts behaviour. Critical Jews even get called self-hating Jews.

I don't suppose for one moment that the creature who sent vile tweets to Luciana Berger cares anything about Palestinians. He's a racist, pure and simple. The same could be said for Joshua Bonehill, who has tried to organise anti-Jewish demos. He's a white supremacist, as are most of the thugs who vandalise Jewish graveyards and post vile messages on Twitter, Facebook and other social media.

Admittedly some of these racists 'ally' themselves with Islamic groups, just as right-wing groups 'ally' themselves with Zionist groups. The Star of David is quite often seen flying at demos organised by right-wing thugs.

For the record, Corbyn was asked last year to

1 repudiate the ideology and behaviour of Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon
2 whether he would condemn antisemitism on the far left as well as the far right;
3 whether Labour would continue to oppose a boycott of Israel
4 whether the party would continue to support and protect faith schools.

He has answered points 1 and 2 many times. The Labour Party does still oppose a boycott of Israeli imports. The goods involved are those made in Israeli-occupied areas in the West Bank.

On point 4, Ofsted has begun to treat Jewish faith schools on a level playing field with other faith schools and has been highly critical of some of them.

Not giving the 'requested' answer to the last two points does not imply anti-Semiticism.

I am more than ever convinced that this issue is being used to smear Corbyn, whereas we should really be looking at the dangers from racist anti-Semites, who couldn't give a toss about anything which happens in the Middle East.

Anniebach

It is in the News and Politics Forum because it has been and continues to be in the News . I admit it is as rare as rocking horse s--t for a thread to be started that is ' not Anti Tory ' but on this occasion the reports are about the Labour Party and our Universities .

Anybody can join the debate or not , anybody can deny it is widely being spoken of in the media, anybody can turn the tables onto other parties but what nobody can do is wipe from those who are interested and read and watch news coverage for themselves an understanding of the subject and as much as some would like to deter others from speaking openly of current affairs because it does not suit their own personal political persuasion it will not happen just because somebody does not like what's being said.

You are correct I could have the subject of Anti Semetic behaviour as a general discussion I would have put it in the Chat Forum. I would still have raised current news coverage over Labour and our Universities however as it is all interwoven so I have no doubt the posts on this thread would have been posted on there too.

I am sure you would still have raised anti semitism in the Labour Party POGS

OK, so let's return to the Labour Party and anti-Semiticism and not get distracted.

My first question when I saw the thread title was why is this making news when anti-Semiticism in other groups is ignored.

Secondly, I asked myself whether the anti-Semiticism is endemic or a few isolated incidents.

Thirdly, I wondered what the anti-Semitic accusations were all about.

So what are your views, POGS?

I have never suggested that being pro Palestinian is being anti semitic. I did say anyone who supports a terrorist group, such as Hamas is.

Being anti semitic is a hatred of Jews for no other reason other then their race. It dates back to ancient times. It means they are discriminated against as a racial group and it can manifest itself in various ways, from organized violent attacks by mobs, state police or even . . . military attacks on entire Jewish communities. The Polgrums, crusades 1096, massacres of Spanish Jews 1391, Spanish inquisition and expulsion from Spain 1492, Cossack massacres in Ukraine 1648-1655, porgums in Imperial Russia 1821-1906, Drefus Affair in France 1894-1906, Holocaust, official soviet anti-Jewish policies and Arab and Muslim involvement in the Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries. These are all examples of anti semitism.

Why is this so? People are always wary of 'other'; different traditions and customs which they don't understand. Percieved prominence and success in what they do can promote jealousy. The fact that Jews were forced to earn a living in the middle ages as money lenders made them hated. Most popular misconception for being hated is that the Jews killed Jesus.

daphnedill

How about this for the record regarding Mr.Corbyn

Here stands a man who has been connected to Holocaust denier Paul Eisen and who exhorts us to be 'friends' with terror organisations Hezbollah and Hamas.

And what of Mr Corbyn's support for boycotting and delegitimsing the state of Israel? A view - even if the Labour leader cannot see it - helps fuel anti Semitism, since unreconstructed protest groups seamlessly conflate anti-Zionism with antipathy towards world Jewry.

Already leaders from The Board of British Jews and the Jewish Leadership Council have written to the new Labour leader requesting talks to clarify his position on matters such as faith schools.

Meanwhile Jews feel a sense of foreboding akin to how the Jews of Germany felt in Germany in the early 1930s.

Look no further than David Mercer, a former director of Labour Friends of Israel, who has just left the party after 20 years as a result of Corbyn's election. As he says; 'When I listen to Corbyn speak on almost any issue, I get the feeling this is a man who doesn't like my community.'

According to figures released last July, there was a 53% rise in the number of anti Semitic incidents in the U.K. in the first half of the year compared to the same period the year before.

I agree with you Venus, but I'll have to keep off this thread because as I see it, the well balanced discussion of this morning, will almost certainly turn into a political row, and in my opinion is one best steered clear of. You know what you think, I know what I think, and for me it's best left at that. So I'm afraid I'll have to leave you to it, sorry!!!!

In passing I wonder if whitewave has had a reply to her inquiry about Labour's attitude towards female Muslim councillors? Just wondered if anyone knew?!

niggle oh no in fact I had forgotten about it. I will send a reminder, although I can imagine the budget and the goings on in the Tory Party are probably taking everyone's attention.

An interesting article about the growth of right wing politics which has a quote from Nigel Farage www.transatlanticacademy.org/node/792
It considers the way that religious differences are being used to create mis-trust and conflict

I think you're right whitewave, not only the budget but now this awful terrorist attack, I can see everyone who is anyone has got their hands full! I hate to go on, but I do get incensed by this sort of discrimination. How about the women tennis players?!! What an outrage!!!! but I digress!! If we could just have an opinion it would be a start! Anyhow thanks for your interest and concern.

Watching this thread progressing (or not) - I will say I have learned a lot about the history as my knowledge was very sketchy.

I have though come to this conclusion. Anti semitism/racism is an abhorrent phenomenon. Unfortunately there is undoubtedly pockets of it at all levels of society and in many institutions, sometimes overt usually covert.

However, I have read and re-read the original post together with subsequent posts and cannot help but come to the conclusion that there was no doubt an element of point scoring in relation to one particular political party. This will be vehemently denied. If this was not the intention then the OP heading should have not identified a particular group, when we seem largely in agreement that anti semitism is to be found at all levels, although not to extent that some people appear to suggest.

What makes me most alarmed is that political point scoring which I am all for (it is fun and makes for good debate) should never extend to using such a concept with all its dreadful historical connotations.

Regarding the poster who asked about 'Contemporary' Anti semitism, according Irwin Cotler, Professor of Law at McGill University and a leading scholar of human right, has identified 9 aspects of what he considers to constitute the 'new-Semitism'.

Genocide antisemitsm; Calling for the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people.

Political antisemitism: Denial of the Jewish people's right to self-determination, de-ligitmization of Israel as a state, attributions to Israel of all the world's evils.

Ideological antisemitsm: 'Nazifying' Israel by comparing Zionism and racism

Theological antisemitism: Convergence of Islamic antisemitism and Christian 'replacement' theology, drawing on the classical hatred of Jews.

Cultural antisemitism: The emergence of anti-Israel attitudes, sentiments, and discourse in 'fashionable' salon intellectuals

Economic antisemitsm: BDS movements and the extra application of restrictive covenants against countries trading with Israel.

Holocaust denial

Anti-Jewish racist terrorism

International legal discrimination ('Denial to Israel of equality before the law in the international area'); Differential and discriminatory treatment towards Israel in the international area.

Cotler argues that classical antisemitsm is discrimination against Jews as individuals, whereas the new antisemitism, in contrast, 'is anchored in discrimination against Jews as a people - and the embodiment of that expression in Israel.. .'

Mmmm, thought for thought, I'd say?

I meant, of course, 'Food for thought'.

Perhaps - if you are looking to feel victimised

Meaning?

So in fact linking anti-semitism to protests about Israel which I thought we had agreed it isn't. Nor do I think it is Jews who are causing the problems in Israel. I know that there are many Jews who are deeply concerned with the things that are happening there, are they then "contemporary anti-semites"?

I had moved on to the right, left wing discussion-sorry to be dragged back

venus I am really struggling to accept what appears from your posts the level of anti semitism. I am a person of no religion but I do have friends of all religions except Muslim, I know of no one who practices the Islamic religion.

I have reached the age of 70, and I have absolutely no memory of a single person I have ever met where I am aware or heard of anti-Semitic sentiment. That is not to deny it doesn't happen, but I really think the pudding is being over egged.

trisher

Depends if you are for or against certain issues that have been discussed, for example, Political anti semites would be appropriate, but that is only one aspect of the whole.

Whitewave

You are not Jewish. How would you know? How many Jews do you know?

On the contrary, all Jews are very afraid of the situation in this country.

Many have moved to Israel. I have come across anti semitism regularly in my life, and have heard of an instance of one near where I live only this week.

I too, am 70, and I can asure you anti-semitsm is alive and kicking.

Of course there are those amongst Britain's 291,000 strong Jewish community who feel that this bleak moment in modern British history will pass. A similar argument was made in the 1930s.

Venus you said
Being anti semitic is a hatred of Jews for no other reason other then their race.
It seems then that you and Irwin Cotler differ or you have modified your views to fit in with his

No they are not! I have lots of Jewish friends both practicing and not. I live in part of the country that has always had a vibrant Jewish community - there has never been any issue whatsoever as far as I can remember. Your last sentence suggests that there is a rise of fascism in the UK which is just plain daft. If it is the case rest assured I and my family will be alongside you in our protests. We would be rock solid in defending your right to freedom of religion.