Gransnet forums

News & politics

Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

(631 Posts)

GNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.

POGS Thu 17-Mar-16 12:12:56

I am raising this as a separate conversation although it has been mentioned on another thread re the Muslim Female Councillors and reports of Mysogyny.

It is worrying to know Anti Semitism is reportedly rising in the UK . When a Political Party is facing accusations of Anti Semetism that becomes a major issue. Now my comment will be challenged but I for one have been asking how such blatent cases of Anti Semitism are being allowed in the UK. We have laws to handle it but they are not being used, why? I will most certainly be happy to say that I do not believe for one minute the majority of Labour MP's nor voters are Anti Semetic, quite the reverse, but is it time voices spoke out against Anti Semitism or at least understood it is an issue within some parts of the Labour Movement.

I have noticed this tendancy from certain Labour MP's and groups they belong to for many years but they were always under the radar and not thought 'influencial' enough, however times have changed. Labour run councils have used Anti Semetic behaviour over issues such as Flying the Palestinian Flag over Tower Hamlets , Calls for boycotting of Israeli goods, banning Jewish films etc. etc.

There is no doubt more interest being taken by the media over such matters and there are calls for Corbyn to show leadership over the actions of the Labour Party activism at Oxford University , indeed something is going radically wrong with our universities full stop an entire thread could be dedicated to that topic alone. I am not talking of racist tweets such as those made by MP's such as Dianne Abbot , Helen Goodman et al. Whilst they are relevant it would just dissolve into a tit for tat fest of he said she said to the left and right of politics. There are idiots in all party's !

I am not , and some will not believe a word of what I am about to say, trying to score a political point. I take my hat off to those Labour MP's who are speaking openly about this problem and calling for action from their Leader. This is not some right wing rag hyperbol taking place but there is something of a 'menacing ' tendency in some quarters of the Party and I hope those MP's who are doing their damnedest to openly stop it's progression do not fail or as some have eluded to run the risk of deselection for speaking out, that's another thread story too.

Venus Tue 22-Mar-16 18:49:32

Jeremy Corbyn now has a mainstream platform for his troubling ideas and alliances. And with many of the electorate still feeling disaffected by modern politics, the scope for the vulerable to soak up his ideology is considerable.

Perhaps I might dismiss Corbyn as a joke if Jews in Britain and Europe weren't experiencing unprecedented levels of hostility.

Even before Mr. Crobyn's victory was confirmed, a poll of British Jews found 67% were concerned about his election as Labour leader. Now the member for Islington North has his party's mandate and details continue to emerge about his ideology, this sense of foreboding has only deepened.

A man who has been connected to Holocaust denier, Paul Eisen and asks us to be 'friends' with Hezbollah and Hamas does not have my confidence or my vote.

Venus Tue 22-Mar-16 18:56:44

Obieone

Jeremy Corbyn has had one meeting since he became leader on 9th February with the Jewish Board of Deputies.

obieone Tue 22-Mar-16 19:05:44

1 meeting in six months.
How many meetings with the others since he was elected?

Bubbe Tue 22-Mar-16 19:06:58

Venus speaks for me. And I am a Jew.

I am by and large an optimistic person but I feel fearful by the rise in overt anti-semitism.

Many of our generation were happy to move into homes further afield as we felt relatively safe and secure. And were happy to integrate without having to assimilate. Our youngsters are moving into homes near each other as they have experienced anti-semitism and they feel safer when living closer to other Jews. I wish I could feel less pessimistic.

TerriBull Tue 22-Mar-16 19:14:30

Welcome Bubbe I don't think I have seen your name before. I think whilst many of us have discussed anti semitism we may not know what that feels like. Venus and Bubbe are to my knowledge the only GNs who have declared themselves to be Jewish, and if they feel fearful I for one would not wish to dismiss those worries.

Anniebach Tue 22-Mar-16 19:23:03

I would never dismiss anyone's fears and it does cause one to remember how .muslim communities live in this country in fear for their lives

absent Tue 22-Mar-16 19:23:05

All forms of prejudice and bigotry are wrong. I think there has been an increase in violent anti-Semitism and other racial and religious prejudices throughout Europe recently and this is, indeed, worrying.

I also think that casual anti-Semitism was much more rife in the previous generation, i.e. our parents' generation, and earlier generations than now. Of course there were aggressive anti-Semites in the UK then – Oswald Mosley was not without supporters – but there was also a fairly common acceptance of the stereotypical miserly Jew (Shylock, Fagin) and it wasn't unusual to hear expressions such as "He's a Jew boy" thoughtlessly spoken by respectable and otherwise pleasant people.

The growth of aggressive bigotry towards Jews marches with a similar increase in hatred of "the other", whatever the other may be. Foolishly I would have expected globalisation and the movements of peoples around the world to increase tolerance and understanding of different cultures, lifestyles and beliefs. In some individuals it has, but in others it has resulted in a pull up the drawbridge and fetch the boiling oil mentality.

It is not inconceivable that some members of political parties and some members of universities nurture such unsavoury ideas – these are large barrels that also contain many more apples that are not rotten. Sadly, the flames of hatred are often fanned by modern media, sometimes deliberately, but also by default in an age of soundbites, spin, getting the best pictures and the gaping maw of 24-hour news.

It behoves thoughtful people, therefore, to be watchful, to speak up when appropriate, to avoid knee-jerk responses to so-called news stories, to use their votes and other political power wisely, and calmly to guide those who are younger, less experienced and, perhaps, less wise. Small steps can still cover a long distance.

Penstemmon Tue 22-Mar-16 19:31:56

To be honest trying to prove some kind of one-upmanship about which party is more/less anti semetic is a bit sick! All racism, which includes anti-semitism is vile and dangerous and needs to be tackled.

There has been a significant rise in racist abuse co-inciding with the growth of extreme right wing groups all across the world and appalling acts of desecration of graves. monument, excrement through doors , assault on people from minority groups, name calling, internet "jokes" etc etc. ..all these acts are abhorrent and as well as hugely damaging to the people on the recieving end are damaging to us all.
The extreme right wing are using the rise of the brutal Islamic groups to make there poison seem acceptable.. but in the long term they don't care which minority group they assault as long as they gain power.

This is how Nazism grew in the 20s/30s. We need to be vigilant and unite against all acts of racism..whoever the perpertrators.

I would stand side by side with any Jewish person who had been the victim of racism but I would also continue my support of the rights of Palestinians. The two are not mutually exclusive.

TerriBull Tue 22-Mar-16 19:32:15

AB - We also live in fear of our lives from a section of the Muslim community living in this country, especially in view of yet another atrocity carried out by Muslim extremists in Belgium today. Personally I am haunted by the sound of a little girl crying on the news tonight who was in one of the affected train carriages. I imagine it will be London's turn again soon or possibly another of our major cities.

Penstemmon Tue 22-Mar-16 19:33:16

"their poison" not there poison..sorry.

Venus Tue 22-Mar-16 19:39:35

Obieone

I can not find any other record of a meeting with any Jewish leaders, other than the one quoted.

The point I would like to make is that many Jews feel embarrassed to discuss this subject because of its sensitivity, with anyone who isn't Jewish, and that is possibly why some of you are surprised to hear how widespread anti semitism is.

I would also like to modify what I said, that I speak for all Jews, because I can't possibly know about the whole population. I can only say that I speak for my very wide circle of Jewish friends, some who have already bought homes in Israel . . . just incase. By that I mean that, as Jews, we know that we have a homeland that will take us in and care for us, if Jews feel threatened to the point that they have to leave. Britain is my home. A country which provided refuge for my grandparents when they escaped Russian pogrums at the turn of the century. I would like to stay!

obieone Tue 22-Mar-16 19:45:40

Sorry, by others I meant Palestine leaders etc.

Venus Tue 22-Mar-16 19:51:14

19th August 2015 is the only one I can trace of Corbyn meeting a Palestinian activist. I can find nothing since.

Well, he would be careful now, wouldn't he?

trisher Tue 22-Mar-16 20:20:08

I hesitated to post this because I didn't want to get into a who is the worst party argument- it is interesting reading though and if it is anti-semitism we are discussing and not anti-Corbyn or support for Palestine it is appropriate
The song the is very revealing
leftfootforward.org/2014/08/the-antisemitic-traditions-of-the-tory-party/

daphnedill Wed 23-Mar-16 01:11:14

Venus, As I'm sure you're aware, Paul Eisen is Jewish and, during his early life, identified as Orthodox. He had a change of heart when he started to look into what happened during the Deir Yassin massacre.

He's a controversial figure, who doesn't deny that Nazis killed Jews, although he disputes the numbers involved and whether Hitler planned the Final Solution from the outset, so he's not actually a 'Holocaust Denier'. His argument about numbers is unfounded, but there is some dispute amongst historians (Jewish and non-Jewish) about whether Hitler started off wanting to murder so many Jews. In the early years he and the Nazis tried to persuade Jews to leave Germany, but others weren't so keen to have them. The British stopped some of them emigrating to what was then the Palestinian Mandate and it was illegal for Jews to buy land, although many did. The US wasn't that keen either as it was recovering from the Depression. For the record, I don't agree with Eisen.

The point is that when Corbyn met Eisen years ago, Eisen hadn't declared his views about denying the numbers of Jews who were murdered and I don't suppose Corbyn had a crystal ball. He was at that stage more concerned about human rights in Israel and the occupied zones. What he saw was a state behaving towards others in the same way that some of them had been treated in the past. I'm not a huge Corbyn fan, especially with regards to his views on foreign policy, but I can see that he would be interested in discussing human rights issues with anybody. I give him credit for doing what he thinks is fair. Fifteen years ago he was an obscure politician and he was not representing the Labour Party and certainly not the official opposition.

daphnedill Wed 23-Mar-16 01:24:49

Just scrolled back. Venus, you don't speak for 100% of Jews. You really don't.

Penstemmon Wed 23-Mar-16 07:37:05

One of my Jewish friends, who is currently writing a novel based on racism against Jews, has walked with me on marches to protest about violence against Palestine. Venus you do not speak for him. To be passionate about one's country &/or ethnicity does not mean you alsoneed to be blind to its political shortcomings.

Anniebach Wed 23-Mar-16 08:36:54

We have a PM who supported apartheid ,

whitewave Wed 23-Mar-16 09:11:13

Perhaps thethose of Jewish faith have felt more fearful since the terrorists have put in an appearance?

nigglynellie Wed 23-Mar-16 09:35:58

FGS that was back in 1989!!!! Equally will the Labour Party apologise for theirs and particularly Gordon Brown's close association with trade union boss Jack Jones who was allegedly at one time the most powerful man in Britain, for his involvement with the KGB to the detriment of this country?!! No of course not, after all this time it would be ridiculous, as is bringing up DC's visit to South Africa 27 years ago.

Anniebach Wed 23-Mar-16 09:39:49

I detest any form of racism or colour or creed prejudice , be it against Christians, Muslims, Jews, gypsies, immigrants from parts of Europe, black skin, white skin, they are equally evil

MargaretX Wed 23-Mar-16 10:18:22

Inspite of it being wartime the Germans kept immaculate records of everyone - (even now when you have to officially state where you live and update every change of address) There are records of every prisoner of war etc. this belongs to the work ethic orderliness, and therefore if records state that there were X number of Jews killed, then there really was that number killed.
Holocaust deniers are not right in the head in my opinion.I'mnot sure but I think it is a punishable crime here in Germany.

trisher Wed 23-Mar-16 10:23:33

Niggly if we're going back in history shall we ask for an apology for Peterloo? Trade Unions, Labour and communism always had strong links. My grandfather was a Trade Unionist and he always claimed to be a communist. (My grandmother whose family were true blue always said "You're not really, George.")

Anniebach Wed 23-Mar-16 10:26:37

Was a record kept of gypsies, disabled, homosexuals kept

rosesarered Wed 23-Mar-16 10:50:14

Good post Margaret yes, Germans are very good at keeping records, very meticulous, and I agree about those who argue about numbers not being right in the head.