GNHQ have commented on this thread. Read here.
I am raising this as a separate conversation although it has been mentioned on another thread re the Muslim Female Councillors and reports of Mysogyny.
It is worrying to know Anti Semitism is reportedly rising in the UK . When a Political Party is facing accusations of Anti Semetism that becomes a major issue. Now my comment will be challenged but I for one have been asking how such blatent cases of Anti Semitism are being allowed in the UK. We have laws to handle it but they are not being used, why? I will most certainly be happy to say that I do not believe for one minute the majority of Labour MP's nor voters are Anti Semetic, quite the reverse, but is it time voices spoke out against Anti Semitism or at least understood it is an issue within some parts of the Labour Movement.
I have noticed this tendancy from certain Labour MP's and groups they belong to for many years but they were always under the radar and not thought 'influencial' enough, however times have changed. Labour run councils have used Anti Semetic behaviour over issues such as Flying the Palestinian Flag over Tower Hamlets , Calls for boycotting of Israeli goods, banning Jewish films etc. etc.
There is no doubt more interest being taken by the media over such matters and there are calls for Corbyn to show leadership over the actions of the Labour Party activism at Oxford University , indeed something is going radically wrong with our universities full stop an entire thread could be dedicated to that topic alone. I am not talking of racist tweets such as those made by MP's such as Dianne Abbot , Helen Goodman et al. Whilst they are relevant it would just dissolve into a tit for tat fest of he said she said to the left and right of politics. There are idiots in all party's !
I am not , and some will not believe a word of what I am about to say, trying to score a political point. I take my hat off to those Labour MP's who are speaking openly about this problem and calling for action from their Leader. This is not some right wing rag hyperbol taking place but there is something of a 'menacing ' tendency in some quarters of the Party and I hope those MP's who are doing their damnedest to openly stop it's progression do not fail or as some have eluded to run the risk of deselection for speaking out, that's another thread story too.
Sorry Venus- but is is not simple at all. Are you denying that Zionists are constantly expanding Israel's territory into Palestine? And the appalling treatment of the Palestinian population?
No-one here denies the massive suffering on the Jews under the Nazi and other regimes here. What many of us will never understand is that a people that have suffered so, now somehow feels 'entitled' to make another people suffer so massively now.
It's true though!!
some people on here don't like the link with the Labour Party and anti-Semitism
Now, if it had been the Conservative Party.......
That is a bit cheap, rosesarered!
Sorry! I didn't mean to post the same link twice. This is the second one...
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/unmasked-merseysider-jailed-anti-semitic-tweet-7966903
rosesarered, No, I certainly don't like anti-Semiticism, wherever it's coming from.
However, I've just spent hours researching this and the evidence is just not there that anti-Semiticism is more endemic in the Labour Party than any other section of society. There is more evidence to suggest that this is an attempt to smear Jeremy Corbyn, but you don't like evidence, so I won't post any more links about that than I already have.
It worries me that these kind of accusations distract from unambiguous cases of anti-Semitism such as these:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Bonehill-Paine
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Bonehill-Paine
Oh, and while I'm at it, here's another link by an Israeli Jewish writer giving another version of life in modern Israel...
www.nybooks.com/articles/2016/04/07/israel-the-broken-silence/
The topic has also mentioned that Israel ostensibly denies the human rights of Palestinians, and I was pointing out that other countries also violate human rights, but for some curious reason these countries do not incur even a whisper of displeasure! How curious is that?!! Well as you say, roses, if you think about it, it is pretty obvious!!!!!
Niggleynellie was observing, that in general, following on from my post, that Israel is singled out more then most on the question of human rights. Why is that, I wonder?
Going back to the Palestinian question and their right of self government, I will put it simply. In 1948, the country was partioned off, but it wasn't enough for the Palestinians, they wanted more, and that was how the six day war came about, and, fortunately Israel won. Whatever they are given, it will never be enough. Their aim is to wipe the nation of Israel out of existence. Small wonder Israel is cautious of further negotiations!
rosearered, people may not like the link betweem the Labour Party and antisemitism. I don't care for it much either.
I have googled antisemitism in the Conservative party, but found nothing to support it. I rest my case.
Venus all good and interesting posts from you.The problem is, some people on here don't like the link with the Labour Party and anti-Semitism!
Now, if it had been the Conservative Party.........
Nigglynellie, the topic is anti semitism
No I haven't got it, Penstemmon and I object to your rudeness, which was even more offensive before your deletion.
The Palestinians have the right to vote, and their interest are looked after by a Palestinian council. Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish dominated state. There is no license to artificially change the demographic character of the country. Self determination in law is a foundation upon which to base human rights, it cannot be used to regate other human rights. The Jews have a collective right to self determination to form and maintain a specifically Jewish state, in which Jews must hold dominant demographic majority. The prime concern must be to maintain security and discourage socio-political disruption.
I have already stated in a previous post that the Palestinians were offered a separate Palestinan state long ago. I don't want to copy the whole post out again but please look on 4th post down.
Annibach, I merely state a fact that anti-semitism is on the rise in this country. There are figures to prove it. It is not a defence, it's fact. Why is there a sudden rise in this country? Because British Jewry is being held responsible for the politics of Israel. Something that British Jewry have no control over.
A lot of countries violate human rights! No accusations against them?
I do not hate Jews, I am against the treatment of Palastine , the horrors of the death camps doesn't cause me to hate Germans , the KKK is vile but I don't hate all American. The accusation of hate is a very weak defence sorry
Israel denies the human rights of Palestinians and their right to self govern Not that democratic.
Israel only allows Jews to have full rights in Israel. Not totally democratic. I really abhor Zionism. I do not hate Jews though I might dislike some people who are Jewish..but not because they are Jewish. Got it yet Venus?
I'm afraid that is exactly the point Venus. You've completely hit the nail on the head. Why is it that we never see condemnation of other countries who are blatantly racist, tyrannical, murderous even to their own citizens? Zimbabwe being one of the most glaring! We never ever hear a peep of a protest. But 'wicked' Israel?!!! Very selective I'd say!!! Why there is this problem and pathological hatred of Jews is beyond me, I simply don't get it, and I'm not a Jew nor are any members of my family. I'm at a complete loss.
Israel is the only demoncratic country in the Middle East, surrounded by hostile Arab nations. Why not discuss the need for fairness for its people in China, Iran, Libya, Korea, Rwanda, Syria, Vietnam, Zimbabwe, Russia, Pakistan, the list goes on and on? Why is there more discussion on Israel then any of these other countries? You may have misgivings about its policies but why single out? Is it because it has the audacity to protect its people against terrorist attacks and its in habitants are mainly Jewish? I think that anti-semitism is alive and kicking. Britain itself has much to be held account for, in the wars it conducts.
Apart from Vicki Kirby and Gerry Downing, there are many, many more like them. Gerry Downing has called upon Hamas and Isis for military force against Jews. These people are in the forefront of the Labour party. The Labour group in Oxford is another who have a problem with Jews and nasty anti semitism exists within the London School of Economics Labour club. It's pretty widespread!
Hamas, which is a Palestinian political entity vows to destroy the Jewish State and supports attack on Jewish civilians including rocket attacks, stabbings and murder. Anyone who supports this vile group is anti semitic. John McDowell, the shadow chancellor, is always prominent at banning anything Israeli and a friend of Downing. He even, on one occasion turned out to picket for him to get his job back.
It isn't only them of course. There are the academics who don't want their Israeli colleagues speaking here, citing the 'terrorist state' of Israel as a reason, but it's okay for academics coming here from places like Zimbabawe, Pakistan, Russia. Just Israel.
There is, indeed, a very thin line between being anti Zionist and anti semitic.
The mass expulsion of the Jews occurred in the reign of Edward 1st in 1290, not Shakespeare's time, and remained in force for the whole of the middle ages. Oliver Cromwell allowed the Jews to return in 1657 in exchange for finance. The Jews down the ages have not just been treated badly worldwide, they have been brutally persecuted right down the ages, in just about every country in the world, some worse than others, up to and beyond WW2. History, for Jews has taught them that the only people who will defend them is them. If I lived in a country that was surrounded by people whose only aim was to murder every last one of my countrymen, I think I'd be a bit twitchy, and if the only way to stay safe, bearing in mind history, is to be ultra strong, then so be it.
I think this was what I meant when I said that political criticism must not be suppressed by accusations of anti-semitism, racism or indeed any "-ism"
Most ordinary & good minded people would want to avoid a reoccurance of the horrific and actively constructed anti-semitism that created the holocaust. The western world is still full of guilt that it was too slow to respond to the rise of the facists and Nazi movement that was so catastrophic for Jews, gypsies,disabled,gays etc. This guilt is now carefully manipulated by the right wing Zionists to make it tough for any government/politician etc. to speak against Zionist policy as it is always equated with anti-semitism. Democracy should allow vocal and honest political opposition to be voiced and at the same time protect individuals and groups from abhorrent racist abuse:anti semitic,anti-Islamic etc etc.
Anyone in any doubt about the left and the claim about anti- semitism please read the links immediately above this from Daphne.
POGS in particular -you will be relieved to know the information contained in them, and understand that the charges are spurious.
Let's put a stop this unpleasant thread.
Anti-semitism has no place on GN.
No, Venus, I don't object to the fact that he's a Jew, nor to his support of Israel. Why should I?
It is his support for Tony Blair I find somewhat dodgy. He declared that he would give up fund-raising for the Labour Party when Blair resigned. Therefore, I question whether his support was for Blair or the Labour Party itself. I am aware he was cleared of involvement in the 'cash for honours' scandal.
I don't think the Labour Party will care much if he resigns. He hasn't ever spoken in a House of Lords debate, so he's a waste of space really. It would also appear from people who know more about him than I do, that he dislikes Jeremy Corbyn and is behind some attempts to smear him.
www.theguardian.com/world/2016/feb/23/antisemitic-or-just-against-the-israeli-governments-oppressive-actions
jewsforjeremy.org/2015/09/25/british-jews-challenge-community-leaders-over-corbyn/
www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/comment/153791/my-doubts-about-oxford-labour-antisemitism-claim
www.leftfutures.org/2016/03/labour-and-antisemitism-lets-keep-the-problem-in-perspective/
Forgive me if this has been said already, but anti-Zionism is not necessarily anti-Semitism.
One can oppose the political acts of the state of Israel but not be anti-Semitic.
I get very annoyed when any criticism of e.g Israeli action in Gaza,military action against Palestinians and even atrocities are countered with accusations of anti-Semitism or even worse, of Holocaust denial.
I am not excusing it, but anti-Semitism has existed since the Middle Ages, if not before. I don't need to roll out the innumerable pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe, the expulsion of the Jews from England in Shakespeare's time, the double standards of those who despised the Jews but borrowed vast riches from them because the Church forbade usury, the Dreyfus affair in France and the anti-Semitism of Victorian and Edwardian England.
To suggest anti-Semitism is a corollary of criticism of Israel is like saying criticism of an African or Asian nation equates to racism. Let's not muddy the water further. Honest political criticism of any foreign power can be freely expressed. Racist rhetoric is illegal and wrong. The former can't be suppressed by invoking accusations of the latter.
Regarding Lord Levy, I would like to know why you call him 'very dodgy?' He has been proved to be innocent of any wrong doing and is a great benefactor to a number of charities - including being a supporter of Israel. Is that what you object to, or the fact that he is a Jew?
I disagree. British troops invaded the Jewish Agency on 29th June, 1946 and conficated large quantities of documents. At the same time, more then 2,500 Jews from all over Palestine were placed under arrest. The information about Jewish operations, including intelligence activities in Arab countries was taken to the King David Hotel.
A week later, news of massacre of 40 Jews in a progrom reminded the Jews of Palestine how British restrictive immigration policy had condemned thousands to death. Irgun leader, Menachem Begun, stressed his desire to avoid civilian casualities and three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, another to the French Consulate and a third to the Palestinian Post warning that explosives in the King David would soon be detonated. The hotel call was ignored. A British official said, 'We don't take orders from Jews.' As a result the casualties were high.
I disagree with you, Venus. The historiography of the British in Palestine shows that the Israeli government has heavily redacted some of the evidence. You have quite deliberately omitted the antics of Irgun (who carried out the bombing), Haganah and Lehi. At the time of the bombing, Palestine was in chaos. The British were supposed to be in control, but the Arabs and Jews were as bad as each other - and had been throughout the 1930s, WW2 and the immediate post-war period.
The British had been ordered to seize arms and information about the terrorist groups, which they had every right to do, just as any ruling power has the right to seize information about terrorist groups. In an attempt to destroy the information, Irgun blew up an hotel, which the British were using as its HQ, killing over 90 people in the process. They also killed many British personnel over a 20+ year period.
I'm sorry, but I don't need to have a 2000 year history of the region. The Romans were in control of Britain at the time, but I hardly think Italians have the right to repossess their country.
In any case, what does this have to do with anti-Semiticism in the Labour Party? (And don't try quoting Blair's friend, the very dodgy Lord Levy. ;-))
I guess Israel would look like Gaza
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