Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

Anniebach

Now you have done U Turn and rejoined the thread did you read my post to you 19.02.

Answers commeth there none.

Still no reply to the activities of Hammas , or Hizbollah (spelling)!! Just like the Muslim ladies!!! Funny how the left is so adept at avoided answering awkward questions that might just tarnish their halos¡¡¡
ab I spent seven years in an Anglo Catholic (C of E) convent school as a border, and I know the story of the crucifixion perfectly well. I was pointing out correctly that the Romans actually crucified Christ, with Tiberius having the final word. How this came about, I didn't allude to. You know this perfectly well and quite frankly your sarcastic comments are childish and pathetic!!
So a lot of the persecuted Jews weren't really Jews at all! and weren't believers!!! and you know this for a fact?!! Perhaps you were there?!! Perhaps you read it somewhere!!!!
Like Venus, I'm really disgusted with the comments on this thread aimed mostly at one person. You should be ashamed.
Come on ab give POGs your opinion about Hammas etc, you must have one surely, oh, and the Muslim ladies?!!!!

Daphnedil, when The Protocols of The Elders of Zion was published it caused many to fear, even though it was later said to be a fraud many still believed it to be true. I find trying to discuss this topic difficult, knowing one is leaving one's self open to another wild accusation , this alone perhaps explains why Israel is not criticised , since WW2 the west suffered much guilt and so Israel has become a sacred cow , above criticism and heaven help anyone who does.

We can criticise America, Russia, China, every country in Europe , every country in the world and no problem, a criticism of Israel ? No way

Racism of any kind:against any group or individual( including Jews) is wrong. Any political party needs to make it clear that any member supporting /making/ promoting racist attitudes will be dismissed from the party. There have been a couple of Labour members recently who were thrown out. I guess in both main parties it is possible that groups deliberately infiltrate to influence or discredit the party. Politics is a murky world. However as long as a strong stance is taken by leaders to remove /prevent racism in all its guises the message should be clear. We shoul all take responsibility to voice disapproval by joining groups/ campaigning etc. against the growing nazi/fascist groups.

Can't believe how this thread has descended into an argument about who killed Jesus, the Romans or the Jews. The killing of Jesus, has been a spurious allegation heaped on the Jewish population ever since, and no doubt one of the reasons they have been unjustly targeted over the years. The Romans were also complicit but the people of Rome have not been reviled in the same way, and neither should they be, equally neither should the Jews have been. The Jews have suffered at the hands of Christians over the centuries, it is one of the many stains that mar the Catholic church in particular. How can any race be held responsible for what happened 2000 years ago.

I agree Penstemmon, and also condemn racism whenever or wherever it rears it's head

I see no reason why the need to bring Christianity into this thread

ab, 'The Protocols of The Elders of Zion' was written and published at the beginning of the twentieth century, so it can't explain anti-Semitism which had existed for centuries before that.

I agree with you, TerriBull, that it seems ridiculous to hold anybody responsible for what happened 2000 years ago, although I can understand that it would have been important to medieval theologians and probably explains some of the hatred of Jews at the time.

I certaintly do not hold the Jews of today responsible for events 2000 years ago, all I did was explain to niggle the facts as written , I didn't even bring Christianity into the thread

Daphnedil, I doubt we will know why centuries of anti semitism have taken place, can it be fear ?

Anniebach. You state.

"I see no reason why the need to bring Christianity into this thread"

Anniebach. 24/3/16. 15.37

"The Jews did not accept Christ as the Messiah, he did speak out against their teachings etc.

Anniebach 24/3/16. 17.16

You mention again Christ the Messiah and Easter.

My post on 27/3/16 did ask about pacifism and christianity but I should have been more direct and used pacifist and christian as I am actually uninterested in debating christianity in general.

You then started posting of the crucifixion, causing offensive and continued to post about Christianity. Personally I have no interest in discussing or hearing what posters think about Christianity other than getting my pointed question answered.

Perhaps I will try again as I feel you are hoping to divert conversation away from the questions you seem to find a problem knowing how to answer from previous posts.

What do you think about John McDonnells statement. " Labour Party members who express Anti Semetic views should be expelled with no possibility of return".

What do you think about calling a Jewish person Zio , the preferred Ku Klux Klan terminology for a Jew.

Do you agree with shops being targeted when they sell goods from Israel , not necessarily food products .

Would you refuse to share a platform with another human being because they are Jewish.

How does as a pacifist which means they oppose war, militarism and violence and believes we should not kill or harm other people not state opposition to Hamas and Hezbollah whose ' Covenant' is Death To All Jews but in some well known case call them 'our friends'.

I'm afraid that some are in'denial mode' about anything which could cast the far left in a bad light. they say ' let's talk about it in ALL the parties' even though the one on the news is actually Labour.The two Jewish Gransnetters have now left the thread ( no wonder!)This doesn't show either Gransnet or 'Christian values' in a good light.In Easter week too, oh the irony!

First of all let's not confuse Hammas and Hezbollah with the Palestinian people. Terrorism surfaces when a peoples feel they have no other way of expressing their views or of having them heard. It did so in Ireland and it did so in Israel when that state was created. But condemning both of those organisations will do nothing to improve the situation of Palestinians a group of people whose human rights have been and still are being denied by the state of Israel. MSF says that the bombardment of hospitals was a breech of international law, but nothing will happen. Can I say as well that I do not consider the actions of the state of Israel to be the actions or be agreed to by all Jews. I recognise that Jews have differing views about this. And in fact those who consider all Jews agree with these actions might be accused of a form of anti-semitism.

I don't think anybody's in 'denial mode'. Do you know that these people who have been in the news have been 'far left', rosesared? I know one of them described himself as a Trotskyist, but I don't know much any of the others. In fact, I don't really know who the others are.

I agree with you, trisher. Anybody who thinks every Palestinian/Arab/Muslim supports IS is as wrong as anybody who thinks every Jew supports the Israeli government.

Well said trisher and daphnedill

I see Christianity cannot be kept out of this by some and for me Christianity is for 52 weeks of the year not one week

Having been brought up a Catholic and knowing people who were in the church 52 weeks a year, sometimes several times a week, I know full well that regular church attendance for some is not necessarily synonymous with goodness, on the contrary it was often about self righteousness and does not mitigate the wrong doings carried out by religions of all persuasions.

TerriBull,i wouldn't speak for others just myself which is what I did - for me

One reason for the antisemitism that was rife in the Middle Ages and Tudor times was that the Jews were the bankers of the time - and we know how beloved bankers are, to this day.

Kings needed money to pay armies and wage wars (of offence and defence) and support their advisors and administrators, and as there was no regular income tax, council tax, or VAT, getting it from the populace via taxes meant raising a specific "tax event". A quicker way was to borrow it from someone.

www.jewishhistory.org/the-rothschilds/ Money-lending by Christians could not make any interest for the lender (because of the way the church interpreted the Bible's condemnation of usury) but for Jews the Talmud had devised a way of coverting loans into investments, which was OK for them.

Islamic banks operate on the same principle - you don't get interest, but you do get an increase in your investment.

Most interesting Elegran, explains Shakespeare perhaps , thank you

I've been looking for a link, no luck - I think Jews went into work connected with finance in medieval UK because they were limited by law as to what they could do to earn a living. I believe they weren't allowed to own land at that time.
Also they were generally better educated than the average british person, having the tradition of studying from an early age, so being able to read and write.

Add in the rather literal faith of most people at the time, and the mediaeval mystery plays which were about the only representaion of Biblical stories that anyone saw, and which depicted Herod and co as the villains of the story - as the ones who wanted Christ dead - and the Jews were seen as people who made a profit out of lending money, which Christians were taught was sinful, and they put Christ to death.

Plus they were far more educated and sophisticated than most of their contemporaries, and they tended to stick together and to socialise with their fellow Jews, all of which probably gave an impression of "They think themselves better than us".

Considering the average British person couldn't read and write in the early part of the nineteenth century can it be the fact that even earlier the Jews could do so have caused mistrust , rather betwix and between really, not noble birth and not of the uneducated worker , not an opinion, just thinking about the subject , yet doesn't explain countries like Russia , thinking Fidler On The Roof

Well, we have now got well away from the problems in the Labour Party, and onto more comfortable ground for some.This thread has really been an eye opener, I do hope that most gransnetters have been taking it in.
If only posters had said ' I must find out about this' and 'I hope the Labour Party will root them out' I would have some respect for them.One or two did, but only one or two.

They were successful, clannish and different when most people were struggling to survive and suspicious of outsiders, AB, and their involvement in the crucifixion made them appear sinister enemies of Christians. Jews and Christendom

rosesarered My apologies for being part of the move away from the OP with links to possible causes of general antisemitism. I shall leave you to return the discussion to basics.

Hello can you hear me ..or don't my posts count?? On more than one occasion I have said that the Labour party should expel permanently any member who behaved, supported or promoted racism. That is not in keeping with socialist values. It is important that no country is allowed to contravene Human Rights either.