Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

White wave

I have entered Oxford University Conservatives AntiSemetic and variences but it keeps bringing up Labour Anti Semitism so I can't respond. Could you provide information as I am interested.

Yesterday during Business Questions Chris Bryant , Shadow Leader of the House made a joke re Osborne and Coke, it has caused amusement. However he also said "We should call out Anti Semitism , wherever we find it".

Perhaps the Labour Party Inquiry into accusations of Anti Semitism within Labour and chaired by Labour Peer Baroness Royall will make a fair and balanced report one way or the other. At least the Labour Party are taking it seriously so all credit there.

British Jewry have very little influence concerning the Palestinian problem, yet they are held responsible for what occurs in Israel. There are certain groups of people who are clearly antisemitic and will use every opportunity to lash out at British and European Jewry.

The attacks on Jews and Jewish targets in Paris, Copenhagen and Brussels did little to raise questions about contemporary anti-semitism. The Palestinian campaign to kill Israeli civilians in the streets has hardly impacted either in the news or the political agenda in Britain. Hostility to Israel is partly caused by antisemitism and is also itself a cause of further antisemitism.

Jeremy Corbyn has made reference to terroist groups Hamas and Hizbollah as 'our friends.' Nearly every week there is identification of racist behaviour or identification of a racist party member involved in the party. Last week it was Gerry Downing and this week it was Vicki Kirby. Prior to that it was members of Oxford University Labour Club. It was only after media interest and objections from some Labour MPs who have no wish to be associated with a party that tolerates Jew-haters, that the party had to act. How did these people every be allowed to be party members in the first place? Their views were known.

Although Mr. Corbyn appears to be genuine in his rejection of antisemitsm, the fact is that he leads a pary that clearly attracts antisemites. The majority of Labour members are decent poeple who are horrified by all forms of racism but there is now a cancer in their party and is getting worse by the day. Labour must recogise and deal with that cancer.

As well as being a threat to Jews, antisemitsm is an indicator of contempt for democratic norms in any movement which tolerates this. Those that fight antisemitsm, and the totalitarian movements which feed on it, fight for democracy.

Oh Oxford University young conservatives for one. Some nasty goings on there. Not sure how that was dealt with.

The point is POGS these unpleasant incidents are not the prerogative of any one particular party.

Trading incidents is not the way forward, but to my mind assuming all right minded people are against such activities is, regardless of political party.

White wave

Interested to know , what cases were thinking of?

How does the Tory party deal with anti-semitism in their party? I know there has been real difficulties in the past.

It's EU policy that goods made in the occupied territories should not be labelled Made in Israel. It doesn't seem anti-semitic to agree that this is a good policy, and to boycott shops that sell goods labelled Made in Israel that are actually made in the occupied territories. Anti-semitism is surely something quite different, and something that should always be opposed. But opposition to illegal actions by the Israeli government, or by companies selling wrongly labelled goods, is not anti-Semitic. Such accusations make it hard to see a constructive way forward for everyone. Many Israelis have a far more nuanced and ethical position.

Being pro Palestinian is not the same as being Anti Semetic is it?

Is 'Israel Apartheid Week' Anti Semetic or not ? Is the call by some Labour councils to boycott Israeli goods Anti Semetic or not. The answer is possibly not but it does leave a nasty taste in the mouth for some but obviously not to others. When/where does the dividing line merge and Anti Semitism is seen as a perfectly acceptable measure to take when Israel is the subject of so much hatred in the eyes of some people and by activism.

I have said on threads before I believe Israel is totally at fault over the occupied territory. That does not make me Anti Semetic. If I refuse to share a debate/platform with someone 'because they are of Jewish birth'. I am in my opinion rightly accused of Anti Semitism. If I call somebody a 'Zio' , a Ku Klux Klan prefered terminology I think that is tantamount to Anti Semitism is it not? Anti Semitism is on the rise , not only in the UK but in many other countries. I am concentrating on the widely reported problems facing Labour and our universities as this is an obvious area to discuss.

The question is about Anti Semitism not whether Israel is right or wrong, nor whether or not Palestinian groups such as Hamas are right or wrong. Both have their own issues and neither can be seen as saints .

I share the views of blueskies and TriciaF

I share POGS and JennyB's concerns. Thank you for expressing them.

Many Israelis, and Jews elsewhere, are pro-Palestinian. Against the govt's. heavy-handed actions.
Many try to build bridges eg Daniel Barenboim's Divan Orchestra, mixed schools etc.
There doesn't seem to be any solution, the history of the conflict is so long and complicated.

it is useful to be aware that there is a huge PR movement by Israel to deflect attention away from their "actions" by accusing critics of being anti Semitic. Remember when some of us spoke out about apartheid South Africa? We must speak up without fear if we know that what we are saying is right. Most Jews hate what is happening in Palestine and they voice their anger without fear. This is not a forum to make excuses for breaches of International Law.

Thankfully they are not under the attacks that Muslims are suffering in this country . There will always be racists, good grief even a member of the English rugby team let rip with a racist taunt last Saturday

I share POGS concerns, there currently seems to be some feeling in certain organisations which confuse countries, political parties and religion. Jewish students have been harassed, the former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams talked about it a few days ago. Students are resigning from Labour organisations and oldies like me who have voted Labour all their lives are shocked and considering their options.
The rights and wrongs of Israel and Palestine are extremely difficult to quantify, similar to Northern Ireland, both have the right to exist and as Ian McEwan has said boycotts get you nowhere you need to go to places to see what is happening and talk to those involved to get their side of the story. This is where taking one side of the argument is seen as being very divisive by many People with Jewish ancestry, e.g. Headlines such as ' Palestinian shot' then if you read the small print you find out they were attacking someone with a gun, knife or car. Also attacks on Twitter of Jewish politicians or simply Jews, which include anti Semitic slogans or symbols last popular in Nazi Germany are very worrying.

POGS, anyone indifferent to racism is a racist to me. and I did not make my reply all about me, I answered your post in which you aired your presumptions about me

There are undoubtedly anti-semitic people and islamophobic people in all political parties and in Britain generally - as there are people who dislike any group that they perceive to be different from themselves. When there are allegations of people of any party displaying racist behaviour or making racist comments they should be investigated and, if found guilty, ejected from the party.

However, there is a growing movement which insists that anyone who opposes Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is anti-Jewish - and yet there have been and continue to be Jewish people - such as Albert Einstein, Noam Chomsky, Isaac Asimov, Gerald Kaufman, Sigmund Freud, Rabbi Michael Lerner, etc. - who have been very critical of the state of Israel.

Many people - including myself - criticise Saudi Arabia and other similarly fundamentalist countries for their treatment of non-Muslims and women. It is not, in my opinion, racist to dislike the way in which the governments of some countries operate - whether their inhabitants be Muslim, Jewish or any other ethnic or religious grouping or political persuasion.

Anniebach

I have not presumed to know another persons thought you elected to say what you did. You have not been accused of racism either.

Instead of making this about you and I what have you got to say on the points raised . I am not fearful of making the connection with some in Labour with groups such as Stop The War and I know that some posters will be upset by my even daring to make a connection because they have mentioned in the past their respect for Stop The War and similar groups. Look up Gerald Kaufman, Vicky Kirby, etc. It does not take more than a nanosecond to find enough material that gives plenty of information to not rely on posters on here for information does it. There are plenty of Labour MP's who are expressing/have expressed their concern over this matter but if there is no willingness to listen to them so be it. The outcome of not listening and being in denial will inevitably be the road to travel for many but that does not mean it is not an issue , it just means debate, discussion is shoved under the carpet which is fine and dandy for some but obviously not for others.

I genuinely have respect for Labour MP's such as John Mann , Frank Field etc. who are raising their voices within the party and I hope they are not deselected for their principled stand.

He visited the West Bank and Gaza to talk to Palestinians, and had meetings here in the UK with Palestinians Wilma ( you see, I have 'bothered' to find out.) Of course he says he is neutral, but since he was never in the past in any position of power, he was in no way able to influence anybody or 'broker' peace.The truth is, he favours what he sees as the underdog, like the IRA.

Presumably that includes Jews?!

rosesarered if you bothered to check, I think you will find Jeremy Corbyn is neither pro-Palestinian nor pro-Israeli.

Just last year at a Jewish community center, he said that all parties must be engaged if peace is to be found in areas of conflict, saying “You don’t achieve progress by only talking to those who you agree with,” he said. “You have to address the rights of everybody if peace is to be achieved across the whole region. Conflicts are settled politically, not necessarily militarily.” He's visited Israel, the West Bank and Gaza many times and believes questioning the Israeli or Palestinian position does not mean you're anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli or anti-Palestinian.

Not wise to presume you know another persons thoughts POGS. I am against racism and have campaigned against it since a teenager

I brought this up on another thread and the GN who answers everything with a link, posted one, to "Hope Not Hate", I'm unsure how impartial this organisation is though my thoughts follow on from rosesarered's point of view.

This does not make Corbyn an anti-semite, but means he is pro Palestinian.

Because he had meetings with Palestinians ( iffy ones) and espoused their cause all through his life.

Any allegations of this kind must be publicly investigated. No political party can afford to be perceived in this way. I understand that the Jewish Labour Movement states the problem got worse since Jeremy Corbyn was elected, after a large number of people joined the Labour Party. A number of these new members are thought to be root of the current problem. From what I read, this issue was discussed at length during a shadow cabinet meeting and steps are now being taken to investigate the situation. I'm sure Jeremy Corbyn will want to know the facts.

rosesarered what makes you say Certainly Corbyn and friends seem only interested in the Palestinians.?

Anti semitism is the persecution and hatred of Jews because of who they are and nothing to do with the state of Israel. Exactly like the Muslim ladies who are similarly ostracized, ridiculed and terrorised because they are women, Jews are once again being singled out because of an accident of birth. The state of Israel is Zionism, which does not mean that every Jew subscribes to that country's government, indeed a lot of Jews actively oppose Israel's policies. To imply that all Jews deserve to be treated in an obnoxious way, and that they deserve this treatment because they are Jews (serves them right) smacks to me of Nazi Germany.