Anti Semitism in Labour Party and Universities.

Not sure that is what daphne is suggesting but I sure she can speak for herself.
But I heartily agree with you

Are we not here not confusing here being anti the attitude of Israel vis-à-vis Palestine- and anti-semitism? The treatment of the Palestinians and the theft of their lands is intolerable- just as is antesemitism.

Yes gran

Not sure that I know what you mean either, blueskies.

Yes, granjura, I agree with you. Apparently criticising the current Israeli government is known by some as 'new anti-Semiticism'. It's almost become 'PC' to criticise the state of Israel, because you get accused of being anti-Semitic.

granjura, do you honestly think if Israel withdrew from the 'occupied territories' tomorrow, all in one go - and went back to 1967 borders - and gave the Palestinians East Jerusalem - do you honestly think Hamas wouldn't find something else to pick a fight about? Do you honestly think that this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they are Jews?

Yes, there's an unfair and illegal occupation there, and yes, it's a humans right disaster. But it is also true that much of the other side is deeply driven by anti-semitism. Anyone who has lived in the Arab/Muslim world for more than a few years knows that. It isn't always a clean one-or-the other blame.

No country can be condemned because someone thinks they may do something in the future

I am anti Israel for their treatment of the Palestinians but I am not anti Semitic

Putting the cat among the pigeons, here is my view, if you can be bothered to read it:
It was only after the Jews re-inhabited their historic homeland of Judea and Samaria, that the myth of an Arab Palestinian nation was created and marketed worldwide. Jews come from Judea, not Palestinians. There is no language known as Palestinian, or any Palestinian culture distinct from that of all the Arabs in the area. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. "Palestinians" are Arabs indistinguishable from Arabs throughout the Middle East. The great majority of Arabs in greater Palestine and Israel share the same culture, language and religion.

Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel.

Even the Chairman of the Palestinian Authority, Arafat himself, is not a "Palestinian". He was born in Egypt. The famous "Palestinian covenant" states that Palestinians are "an integral part of the Arab nation" -- a nation which is blessed with a sparsely populated land mass 660 times the size of tiny Israel (Judea, Samaria and Gaza included).

All attempts to claim Arab sovereignty over Israel of today, should be seen with their real intention: The destruction of Israel as a Jewish state and the only bulwark of the Judeo-Christian Western civilization in

- the Middle East.
As I've said before, I converted to Judaism, with a Jewish husband, and whatever the Israeli govt's faults, it's our Land.

TriciaF My father's family come from Nazareth in Palestine and lived in the area for very many generations (we have the family tree/deeds to lands etc). There is a distinct Palestinain culture ranging from clothing/food/music etc. There is a common language Arabic, but that is also dialectic and differs in different countries.

The denial and destruction of a culture is a well known way to dehumanise a group of people. Indeed it was carried out by Nazis by making Jews non-people. This is what some Israeli Zionists are now doing to further their political cause in Israel. National Palestinaian dishes are now referred to as Israeli food etc etc. My grandmother's cousin ran his family orange groves in Jaffa..all removed from him in 1947 but we hear it is the new Israelis that brought fertility to the desert!

I joined the anti-nazi league many years ago and will stand side by side with anyone to fight racist attitudes and attacks against any group/individual who is being victimised. Equally I have campaigned and lobbied for women's rights and abhor the attitudes of any religious faiths that use religion to subjugate women.

If now the new definition of being anti-semetic is to be pro-Palestinian then I am. That will be a shock to my many Jewish friends.

Annibach, Hamas, for your information, is a terrorist group who conduct suicide bombing, rocket attacks and launch long range missiles that reach major Israeli cities including Tel Aviv and Haifa. The attacks on civilans have been condemned as war crimes and crimes against humanity by human rights groups such as Human Rights Watch.

Analysts say that it is clear that Hamas knows that many of its conditions cannot be met and even if it were, they would not recognise the State of Israel.

This is what the Israelis are dealing with. To give back power into the hands of Hamas would be sheer madness!

You say that you cannot predict what will happen in the future if Israel were to give in to Hamas. I think we can be pretty sure what would happen.

I know the history. The Middle East is a mess, but what does that have to do with anti-Semiticism? You are conflating two issues.

Some Jews have never been to Israel and don't want to go. Nevertheless, they can suffer anti-Semiticism - and their ancestors have done for centuries, long before the state of Israel was formed.

There is an anti-Semitic undercurrent in European thinking which needs stamping out, but this has little to do with Israel or Palestine. The danger is that some of these bigots will be sucked into the Palestinian cause, as some Zionist groups have been associated with right-wing anti-Islam groups. As far as I'm concerned, both are abhorrent.

So why is the Labour Party being singled out as being particularly anti-Semitic?

Venus, Most people know what Hamas is and few people support them. What does this have to do with anti-Semiticism? Can't you see that Hamas is playing to people who feel that they are powerless and have no other way?

Well said, Penstemmon! Some of my father's family lived in Palestine before WW2 (as British administrators) and I've seen photos of that area. It all looks very fertile to me. Ironically, it was the Zionists who were considered to be terrorists.

daphnedill maybe they knew my grandfather. He was a former WW1 soldier who ended up in Palestine at the end of the war and then worked for the Mandate. He married the local doctor's daughter (my Palestinain grandma) and became the Registrar in Haifa. The family left in 1947 and my grandfather brought his wife and children to the UK.

Is there an expression for people who are anti-arab or anti-Palestinian? I suppose not. I don't think I am anti-semetic. I have a some historical knowledge and I know that Jews have been subjected to poor treatment by many peoples in many different places and I would never condone this. What I don't understand is how they can justify the ill treatment and denial of another country's peoples' rights because of a terrorist organisation. What is more history shows such treatment doesn't work. We tried it for generations with the Irish, behaving in much the same way led to centuries of conflict. People continue to fight for their rights even when they are starved, denied a history and a language and their land is occupied. Those who refuse to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat the mistakes just in different places.

Actually I believe genetically many Arabs are Semetic!

Does that make Israeli actions in Gaza anti-semetic? (This is getting complicated!)

In 1948, the United Nations drafted and ratified Resolution 194 which called for the Arab state and Israel to resolve the refugee/resettlement issues but the condition was that all returning citizens would agree to live in peace. Receiving no such guarentee from the Arabs, Israel decided to postpone repatriation until her neighbours would recognize her right to exist.

In 1967, nine different nations (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan Saudim Arabia and Iraq) declared war on Israel and promised to exterminate every Jew.

Israel defeated the Arabs in just six days and the territory was expanded to the West Bank, Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the Sinai and the remainder of Jerusalem, (half of which was taken over by Jordan after the the 1947 war) This territory is referred to as part of Israel's 'illegal occupation.' Most of this land had been offered legally to Israel in the Balfour Declaration anyway, before Gt. Britian sold it behind Israel's back.

Historically, the land had been the home of Jews for literally thousands of years.

I can't cover the whole history here but land has been returned such as Sinai but a treaty cannot be reached. Israel's deal (brokered by the U.S.) always goes like this. 'You give Palestinians back some land and here is what they will do: They'll promise to stop killing you'. That's the deal.

Then after the deal, the promise is broken and missiles are fired into Israel from Gaza. It doesn't matter what Hezbolah want Israel dead, Hamas the same, Al-Qaeda the same, Muslim Brotherhood the same

Jews lived in the land since the time of Moses and there never was a country called Palestine. This was a nickname for the Holy Land under the Romans.

www.facebook.com/263288520443943/videos/10152058963975147/

A trailer for a film of Palestinain's remembering their life in Jaffa pre 1947.

Venus you have given one UN resolution as an example. There are in fact 77 UN resolutions condemning Israeli actions in the region. As I said before disputes such as this will go on for centuries unless the parties are willing to talk. As long as there are Palestinians who regard their treatment as unacceptable the country of Israel will not be safe or secure. They may very well think they have managed to impose a peaceful state but history shows even a people who have been totally subdued will have a memory and will rise again. Denial of a people is the worst form of racial abuse. I could quite easily say there is no such thing as a state of Israel as it didn't actually exist at all until after WW2. I wouldn't do so. It was built by people who fought for their right to exist, but surely that should mean they should be willing to recognise that others will do the same.

Venus, What does the history of the area have to do with anti-Semiticism in the Labour Party?

PS. You missed out Irgun and the King David Hotel bombing.

Trisher, actually the Balfour Declaration of 1917 promised support for a Jewish 'national home' in Palestine, which is way before the Balfour Declaration of 1947. As I said before, every time Israel agreed to a peace plan, the Arabs broke the peace. What would you do?

daphnedill, the conflict in Israel has nothing to do with antisemitsm in the Labour Party. We obviously have digressed!

Dahnedill.

PS. The British police had seized sensitive files which were thought o be kept in the King David Hotel. A call was made to the switchboard, 15 minutes before the attack to evacuate the hotel. This was ignored. The French consulate received a message to open their windows before the attack. Several warnings were given, but none reached the top people.

Can a country in violation of 77 UN resolutions expect anyone to take its peace proposals seriously?