Something positive about this government

Rosesarered, I do think about it , I work with people who are hovering on the line , people have committed sucide because of political choices , this cannot be ignored anymore than a person with MS has their car taken from them

Fine, have it your way ab and keep talking about suicide on the political threads [with no proof, as suicide is a very complex thing.] perhaps others will do so too.Their choice.

If you don't support Labour, there is no point contributing to a thread like this, that's pretty obvious.

You are fighting those who throw out all the emotive stuff, like 'suicide', as if no one from a working family not reliant on benefits has ever had to deal with awful issues like suicide, incapacity, illness, unemployment or where the money for the next electricity bill is coming from.

If you are on this thread and not of a left wing persuasion, you lack compassion, have no idea of suffering, and are of the 'I'm alright Jack' brigade.

For the left, on this thread at least, it's all about homelessness, benefits, unemployment and what it's like to be on the very bottom rung of the ladder. It's almost as if suffering is peculiar to that cohort only.

I can only speak for myself and say we all find ourselves in the circumstances that are at times difficult. I have had a pretty hellish life, but fear for the country if the hard left and Corbyn are ever elected.

I get the feeling here that if you have a roof over your head, have had a career, have a bank account, and can pay for food, even if it's only bread and soup, you are a selfish individual with no idea of suffering.

This is why I have lost faith in the Labour party....because the zealots in their ranks forget that life can be distressing and tough for MANY people.

Quite a few of us who are NOT prepared to vote for Corbyn and Labour like the fact that Cameron and co ARE aware of the Big Issue sellers so beloved of many who've contributed to this thread, but also recognise that the majority of us, who've had trials, tribulations, illness, trauma, unemployment, etc, etc, etc and have fought hard for everything we have, also exist too.

I would occasionally like recognition that in the great scheme of things a few breaks should go our way, otherwise, what is the **ing point of trying, of making the best of your circumstances and encouraging your children to make an effort?

I am fully aware that the world isn't a fair place, it never has been, and I tend to do all in my ability to aid the less fortunate if I can. I am able, and can thankfully say, "There but for the grace of God* " (*insert Buddha,hard work, circumstances, friends, family background, surgeons, good genes...whatever you like there.)

It seems completely ignorant and blinkered to label anyone not in love with Corbyn as selfish and unaware. Should we all be living in squats and begging so that we can appreciate life being tough? Sorry for recognising that it's bloody tough for many from the safety and security of my own four walls. (One must apologise...I think it's almost mandatory on this thread.....)

Gosh Day6. What an excellent summary. Thank you.

Apology is never mandatory or almost mandatory, it's a choice surely

Thank you for your post Day6. You have said what I have wanted to say but put better than I would. It drives me mad that anyone who votes Tory is just seen as a monster with no compassion at all.

You have my sympathy Roses I can imagine how this insensitivity to your request must hurt but please believe that the majority of us empathise and respect your wishes.

Day6 I agree with much of what you said. I am not attached to any political party but do not wish to vote for JC and as a result it seems I am heartless and uncaring. I am not but it is not appropriate to list what good things I do or have done to help others.

I believe in motivating people to work hard and achieve their best. That sometimes means tough love but in the end it is best for the individual. As parents that is what we do so our children can learn that life is their own responsibility.

I would prefer to give more to people who are not in a position to help themselves but determining which they are would be an unpopular process. I retrained in my 40s to help my family and was told that it was OK for me to do that because I was strong minded! One son has done that same in his 30s and is very successful. Not everyone can do this but an awful lot is down to attitude.

Can anyone suggest a reason we have 2 big issue sellers when our unemployment is 0.9% please?

I have a comfortable home and a reliable work pension based on a 40year working life.

In my job I worked with families in areas of deprivation and of comparative wealth (but not the exceptionally wealthy) but mostly the working 'poor' on that difficult borderline.

My parents did not come from comfortable 'middle class' backgrounds..we all 'earned' our money through wages/salaries not inherited /invested money.

I have had my fair share of personal difficulties including supporting and managing close relatives with serious mental health issues, relationship & financial disasters. I have relatives with significant disabilities but who make the most of life and try to work as hard as they can.

I have close family and friends who do or have worked in the public sector, private businesses and who are/were self-employed, some of whom struggle to make ends meet and some who have money to spare.

I say all this to illustrate that I am not in cloud cuckoo land or in a bubble.

My politics are left wing but I am not a loonie nor am I prejudiced against all Tories..I even have friends who are 'true blue'!

I object to the generalisation that those of us on the left are unaware of the fears and worries of the 'working' right . I just do not happen to agree with them.

My husband whom I adored died in a car crash, I would not expect the subject of car crashes never to be mentioned, I also lost two babies but would never expect or ask that still births never be mentioned . We cannot avoid the fact we have suffered grief and loss

Are they brought up to attempt to score dubious political points?

I imagine they would be brought up if they were relevant to the discussion obieone. If people are being driven to extremes by the perverse sanctioning which surely no one can believe are not happening, then it will come into the discussion.

It should surely be the subject we are discussing and not forum members personal issues?

Are what brought up to score political points obieone..?

roses I too have had to cope with suicide in my family but my stance may be different from yours..I believe the more we talk about it and air the situations that can contribute to someone taking that step the better it is.
For me shying away from talking about suicide can collude with the negative attitude society generally has about people who are mentally ill .

If the percieved threat of poverty, greater debt etc is contributing to some people with a mentall illness becoming more ill and closer to, or fulfilling, suicide then it is better we all talk about it.

Well said Penstemmon, mental illness is pushed aside so easily , not to be discussed, well it needs to be discussed because there is a rise in the number of mental health suffers and the higher the number the more risk of more suicides. No one speaks of suicide as if it is a joke, it's a nightmare

Thank you Day6 an excellent post.
Penstemmon this is not a subject for political threads. Anything at all can push people with depression over the edge at any time.If it's not perceived threat of poverty, it's loss of a relationship ( should we blame the girlfriend?)
Or not getting the job at interview, or more often than not, a general sense if worthlessness and impending doom.Besides that, blaming high suicide numbers on any government we have is ridiculous and unproven.
But fine, carry on mentioning it, see how many times you can get the word suicides into political posts.

Two minutes ago anniebach on the Holy Week thread you were wondering what we could do, and I suggested being nicer for a while?
No point being down on your knees praying, while keeping on ensuring that this thread goes on and on ( and on) stupidly blaming politics for deaths.

Gracesgran your post is hardly of a Christian nature ( or shall we say a kind nature.)

Rosesarered, no one has said all suicides are caused by this or any government , the reasons are legion , not all cancer deaths are caused by smoking but smoking does cause some cancer deaths , I am truely sorry you are upset but in honesty you know the subject of suicide cannot be ignored or not spoken of

Rosesarered, I did not ask what we could do, it was you who brought up what you thought people should do,

Not spoken of to score political points, as well you know.

Roses It is of course the illness that causes people to consider or carry out suicide Iam fully aware of that. However it is very foolish to ignore triggers.

If it is uncomfortable for politicians to hear that the impact of some of their policies is an increasing factor in causing those with clinical depression to become more ill I am not sorry. We all need to make decisions with the widest understanding of the impact it will have. Increasingly professional politicians appear to have less and less awareness of or empathy for the end impact of their policies on 'hard working' people! i am including former Labour politicians too, not just Conservatives!

.......is it even worth my attempting a point of view on this emotive subject with left wing people for whom point scoring has no boundaries?The answer is likely to be a resounding NO.

So am off the thread to leave you to it.

Gracesgran, Richard Murphy agrees with you about IDS.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/03/21/its-more-important-to-consign-osbornes-ideology-to-history-than-the-man-himself/

Roses, there is lots of proof that benefit cuts and sanctions have caused people to commit suicide.
I have put links on.
Just because you do not want to read them or believe it does not make it false.
IDS is hiding from the facts, too.

I just wish I could put it over as he does Jen. I have seen more discussion of the citizen’s income recently on less political discussion sites, which he feels can now be discussed (penultimate para). I do wish we could see more investigation of this.

He is right though. If those who don't take such a deep interest but just believe what the mainly right-wing press tells them start to question the ideology, I feel it will start to unravel.

Agree, Gracesgran. (Not about how you put it over, I hasten to add; you do it very well.) However, most people are not even prepared to consider what he says. Perhaps we need a citizen's income thread.

I have just been directed to the government's announcement website, where they list everything from every department.

www.gov.uk/government/news/all-welsh-jobcentres-switch-over-to-universal-credit

Did any of you Welsh GNs know about this? It seems strange timing when the Welsh secretary has just been put in charge of the DWP.
Did Cameron and Osborne know about this?