23 June.

I wonder why, though. What does the media get out of Brexit?
Most of the media is owned by foreigners.

Maybe it is more exciting having more visas and stamps in their passports!.

Welshwife

Yes I know DJ I haven't given it much thought but it does seem odd

Takes them longer to get through customs so they can charge more to travel expenses?

Seriously, I find that this website gives all the facts you need to know about Europe.

fullfact.org/europe/

It has even more links than I give!

I have just discovered that they have a Q&A blog.

fullfact.org/ask/

You can ask a question about the EU. Good idea.

Newspapers are more right wing. Even the Guardian seems to be becoming more right wing.

I think Brexit will win, They have more passion.

It is hard to defend the current EU.

I sort of feel that those who are on the 'stay' side are a bit complacent that they need to do little whereas the 'outers' have been shouting about perceived problems for years -- you know what they say - if you tell a story often enough everyone starts to believe it. This is what I think has happened and now it is difficult to redress the situation and get the truth believed. One such half truth is the money we are told we pay every day into the EU - the outers always quote the gross amount paid and not take the allowances into account. That is a bit like thinking you have your gross amount of pay to deal with rather than the net you actually receive. I also feel that poor areas which received massive amounts of financial help from the EU - particularly with training and education after the age of 18 - should be reminded of the facts and just how it has helped their communities.

Perhaps they want to wait until closer to the referendum.
Punch drunk at the moment with all the lies told by Brexit and Boris.
I'd love Fullfact to do a factcheck on Boris's statements. They haven't done one on him since 2012.

Today's spotlight on the fullfact website, Welshwife.

fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Brexiters will not bother reading it, preferring their prejudices.

What does the media get out of Brexit? Well Murdoch, for instance, (non EU resident billionaire who controls several newspapers, that Murdoch) likes pulling the strings. He uses his media empire and its power to intimidate UK politicians and governments. Presumably his motivation is a naked desire for power plus his right-wing philosophy. He hates the EU because it is also very powerful. It is not an aggressive market driven trading area, it's an institution founded, after 2 dreadful wars, on higher ideals and it sets out to protect its' citizens from the effects of untrammelled capitalism. Hence employment legislation and regulations which protect us from all kinds of unregulated exploitation. That is what makes us different to the USA. That is why some business people complain about regulations. And that is why his newspapers run silly stories about straight bananas etc.

Welshwife. Re your post about visas. So does that mean that I didn't need a visa for China because I was in the EU? And, if we stay in the EU I won't need a visa for Cuba (next year)

No, of course it doesn't. I know I'm not Welshwife, but I can see the sense in what she said.
If we vote to come out of Europe, and you travel anywhere else in the EU you could need a visa.
If we stay in the EU, and you go to Denmark, Spain or France, you will not need a visa.
Quite simple, really.
China and Cuba are not part of the EU, so that will not be any different.
Or are you just boasting about the far distant places to which you have travelled?

Thank you Jen just logged on! petra you understood exactly what I was saying - it is quite likely that duty free amounts will also be re-introduced with the EU.

I happen to live in an area that has had a lot of EU money.
But we are not an area that thinks of ourselves, but of the bigger picture.

I am in favour of visas. Again, even though that affects us directly as a family, we see the bigger picture.

Thing with visas is that it would be an extra thing for law abiding people to have the hassle of applying and paying for but would not stop those who really wanted to enter the country illegally from doing so. Did you see the chap on a TV programme a couple of nights ago showing how easily and cheaply he could make fake passports and visas? He was doing them for people wanting to get a job - but serious illegal migrants - whether or not terrorists would have no trouble - in fact their ones would likely be better than the real thing!
We would be on our own when it came to hunting for terrorists with little outside help apart from the countries we sign individual agreements with and that would be time consuming.

What is your bigger picture, obieone?

Why would we be on our own Welshwife?

I have made a few comments on other referendum threads durhamjen. I am not going to repeat them here.

My bigger picture is bigger than your bigger picture, obieone. I did say why do we need another thread about the EU referendum, but what's the point of saying on here that you see the bigger picture, but not saying what it is.
From what I see, Brexit wants to reduce our chances of being part of the wider world.

Anyone going on www.fullfact.org can help to get the real facts by joining the crowdfunding on the site. They want over £30,000 to pay for their research.

I understood those who wish us to leave want an independent Britain so I would imagine there would be a need to negotiate treaties of our own with other countries - or maybe with the remaining EU block as one entity.

I would think with separate countries, as the whole point is not to deal with the EU as one entity.
However, what other EU countries would want is just as important as what we would want if we were outside the EU.
Norway claims that it still has to abide by EU trade agreements even though it has no say on how they come about. In which case Brexiters will have less power, not more, which presumably is what they want.
I do not profess to know what they want, as I do not think they do. All they appear to know is what they do not want.
Even Cameron had problems putting into words what Britain wants, which is why his negotiations amounted to nothing much.

This country has not needed to negotiate trade deals for a very long time. We have no expertise to draw on. It would be a process of huge complexity and it would take years to negotiate lots of new deals. EU nations would not be keen to reach agreements with us. They would be angry with us for leaving and want to punish us. And why would other nations want to dedicate the time to negotiating UK trade deals when they could be devoting their time to negotiating with much bigger countries like China?

Good points, JessM.

durhamjen. What's to boast about, thousands of British people visit these countries. It's no big deal.

How about answering the rest of the points?

It may well become a bigger deal than you imagine! I agree with Jess why would they want to trade with us?

We would be on our own when it came to hunting for terrorists says Welshwife

I don't think I would like to rely on the Belgians for help, they aren't doing a great job in their own country.

Why would the rest of the world not want to trade with us ? This is scare-mongering.