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What will happen to our political parties?

(20 Posts)
Gracesgran Mon 18-Apr-16 12:14:55

I have been listening this morning to Conservative MPs explaining why the Treasury figures cannot be trusted. After the referendum how will they be able to support their own government?

Does anyone think there could be some fracturing and reforming of parties or will they just paper over the cracks? I am really interested in what such reformations could produce not about the arguments between left and right on this.

POGS Mon 18-Apr-16 15:02:11

I would hope that once the 'people/voter' have made their decision known they would behave like adults, get on with what the country will have asked them to do , do their damnedest to work for the United Kingdom Party and put internal party politics behind. them.

Easier said then done, naturally because they are human beings not robots but at least they were given a free hand to say what they thought, not 'whipped' by their party. I prefer to know that our Parliamentarians have a thought , rather than be puppets under communist control /dictatorships under the likes of Putin, Kim Jong-Un , Mugabee et al.

We wouldn't even be asked to make a decision what we wanted for our country would we and they wouldn't the choice to argue or debate the choices. That's precisely why some people find sovereignty so precious.

daphnedill Mon 18-Apr-16 15:03:55

What exactly do you mean by 'sovereignty' and can you give some concrete examples of how it's being undermined?

rosesarered Mon 18-Apr-16 15:09:13

I think that once the referendum is over, it will be about papering over the cracks.There are cracks in both the main Parties, with the Conservatives it will be business as usual afterwards ( there have been Euro-Sceptics there for ages) but will all be wanting another term in government in 2020.For Labour, not so sure,
There will likely be a coup to oust Corbyn at some stage, and get somebody electable at the helm. A possibility of course that moderate Labour MP's will choose to break away and form another party along with disaffected Conservatives...! that would be interesting, they could take over ( absorb) the Lib Dems as well.

varian Mon 18-Apr-16 15:13:46

Pogs when you say "Easier said then done, naturally because they are human beings not robots but at least they were given a free hand to say what they thought, not 'whipped' by their party. I prefer to know that our Parliamentarians have a thought , rather than be puppets under communist control /dictatorships under the likes of Putin, Kim Jong-Un , Mugabee et al." you are right about most but not all of our political parties. The totalitarian SNP does not permit dissent from the party line.

POGS Mon 18-Apr-16 15:27:39

Yes I have noticed that Varian.

rosesarered Mon 18-Apr-16 15:36:09

Maybe that's why they look such a miserable bunch.

Gracesgran Mon 18-Apr-16 15:41:34

I didn't think I had asked so obscurely. What I meant was - is there a likelihood of a split in some of the parties - some growing and some getting smaller? Could the actual picture of party politics change - smaller parties with groupings, etc.?

POGS Mon 18-Apr-16 15:58:05

For me to answer with a personel opinion Gracesgran I would have to raise the prospects of a party splitting in the future would apply to Labour probably more than the Conservatives.

You asked in your OP not to argue between left or right and that might not be option I'm afraid.

Gracesgran Mon 18-Apr-16 16:42:37

No Pogs it is not for me to ask you not to argue left v right or even right v left but what I was interested in is the future of party politics. You answer how you please smile I was just surprised at the first posts and thought I might have been a bit obscure in the OP.

whitewave Mon 18-Apr-16 16:53:37

There is a general view within the media that the Tories won't be able to get back together. One person described that what is being said behind the scene about the two sides is utterly nasty, poisonous and bitter. To the extent that people can't see how they will jog along after the referendum.

M0nica Mon 18-Apr-16 22:19:11

Political parties have always been broad churches encompassing a wide range of different and divergent views, but linked by a common philosophy behind them. I do not think there will be any papering over the cracks, just business as usual

Anniebach Mon 18-Apr-16 22:55:07

Yet the vote out MP's have said if we leave the EU Cameron can stay on as PM but not be involved in the leaving process, that's not a crack it's a crevice

Gracesgran Mon 18-Apr-16 23:07:05

They have always been broad churches as M0nica says but I wonder if they can actually continue like this with the amount of scrutiny on them. Times have changed and are continuing to change very quickly, e.g., the internet and phones that record and take pictures. This makes me wonder if it will become more difficult to paper over the cracks. Add to this a more educated population who are aware of spin, etc., and I can imagine changes ahead.

durhamjen Tue 19-Apr-16 00:37:47

I cannot see how, having rubbished Osborne's figures, the outers can possibly work with him as chancellor afterwards.
If Brexit win, he cannot carry on any more than Cameron.
So yes, it will be a big split in the party.

whitewave Tue 19-Apr-16 08:16:26

They arn't cracks they are insurmountable fissures.

Gracesgran Tue 19-Apr-16 09:39:34

But if we are honest there are divisions in all parties. I don't think it is the differences within the parties that has made me question this but the different way the media treats politics these days - there is nowhere to hide.

The Conservatives are most obvious currently and, once this is all over, the media will remind every government minister of what they have said about their colleagues or what was said about them, each time they comment. I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.

POGS Tue 19-Apr-16 11:54:21


I do agree with your post 09.39, one week the Tories are in the frame , another week the Labour Party are in the frame. Depends on the topic of the day, the flavour of the month scenario.

I fully understand the reason why the EU debate is centering on the Tories as without doubt they are a divided party on the EU , have been for years. The irony is the likes of Tony Benn and Corbyn would have voted with vote leave over the years., that's not spin or playing party politics it is a fact. For the most part Labour have a small group of MP's who are vote leave campaigners and are not making much of an impression as I suppose they are few in number and the media interest is simply not there. Another week it will be all about Labours problems and their obvious disharmony, that's the way it goes, round and round and round.

Why I agree with your post is I feel that technology has 'without a shadow of doubt' in my mind opened a can of worms that no politician can hide from, openness and anonymity. If they f-rt on a on a Monday the smell will be reported by Tuesday probably. This applies to all party's but the focus will inevitably be aimed at Labour and the Tories as they are the biggest groups.

I think the fact we can view past speeches , view t.v. interviews, check facts on google easily does give us the voter more of an interest in politics as we probably are now more aware of how the system works, what makes it tick. There is undoubtedly a case that activism and politics belong in some cases to families who would never vote for another party, the old, if a monkey stood for election as long as it wore the right colour rosette they would vote for a monkey to represent them gag. However I feel the general public does talk more about politics, has become more engaged in politics and are more aware of when they see spin and hypocrisy as opposed to honesty, this is down to programmes such as This Week, Question Time being engaging for us to view and talk about , gone are the days when politics meant only going to union meetings or political rallies, we have it brought to us and we can decide for ourselves what we believe is best . We need no longer to rely on political bias or spin, we can decypher information for ourselves.

I think for most people it doesn't matter which party is being spoken of as long as it is truthful rhetoric. I don't think most people are stupid enough to believe all things they see and hear , unless of course it is from the horses mouth, even then some will argue the point. As you say there is nowhere to hide and one thing that can be guaranteed in this media based, technological age is 'be careful what you say and do or it might just come back and bite you on the backside'.

durhamjen Tue 19-Apr-16 23:35:11

The reason the EU debate centres on the Tories is because Cameron forgot his PR skills and gave us a referendum. If it wasn't for the Tories there would be no EU debate.

durhamjen Tue 19-Apr-16 23:39:10

By the way, the chairman of the Vote Leave board is a Labour MP. I am sure she is not bothered if Gove, Johnson and friends on the right get all the publicity.