The Labour Party

Gracesgran on previous page - may be Corbyn hasn't changed his views, but sometimes his behaviour - eg bowing at the cenotaph and wearing appropriate clothes.

No reason why it shouldn't continue elegran

This thread has been a pleasure to read. Political discussion without resort to doctrinaire hyperbole or character asssassinations on the personalities of those involved - either in government or on the thread. Thank you to the restrained participants.

Wow, that is quite a memory whitewave! We watched it on TV. My stepfather was an amateur radio enthusiast, (that's how he came to be in the far east during the war) and made our first TV in 1951! I remember watching an ice pantomime, and being told that the sometimes fuzzy picture was falling snow!!!!! A bit of a tall story methinks!!! By the time we watched the Coronation, things had improved on the fuzzy front, and we were confident enough to ask TVless friends, family and neighbours round to view.

Anya I thought your remark to lazi was unnecessarily cutting. Did you look at the site she linked to? I had a brief look (will read in more depth later) and thought it was really interesting. I don't think she/he was aiming to belittle us in making her/his comment but was pointing out that the terms "left" and "right" are not an entirely reliable way of describing something so complex. In normal conversation, though, I would say that they are a sort of "shorthand" to give some indication as to a person's likely views on a few key issues.

No and yet I should have done, as I was old enough. I actually went to the coronation all the way from Cornwall. I stood under a policemans cape as it piddled down.

HRH's 90th birthday!! Anyone here remember the death of George V1th? Not at all relevant to the conversation I know, but goodness it does seem a very long time ago! Probably because it was!!! I was just nine, and I remember feeling quite alarmed at the hushed voices (at school) and the feeling of impending disaster!

I've just filled in the drinking survey!

and as it's HRH's birthday

I'll drink to that Whitewave or perhaps given the time of day

I an sure lazy would not have been so rude as to suggest that we are too simplistic - just that it is impossible to develop a proper argument on here. We can give it a go though. It is fun trying.

Actually re Corbyn and PQT - I thought that yesterday, for the first time, he showed some command of his topic and had Cameron on the back foot about all schools becoming academies.

And Jane therein lies that line that someone (*Whitewave*?) talked about earlier (if my memory serves me correct) when you mention the actions of the Unions (almost a death wish)that gave people like Thatcher the excuse she needed to emasculate them.

I fear that the LibDems were 'finished' when they went back on promises such as student loans and that is when Vince Cable IMO lost his position as an 'honest politician' in my own estimation. Sorry if you find this too simplistic for your sophisticated tastes Lazi but the general public are not especially sophisticated when it comes to politics - and why should they be?

The LibDems were finished by their own voters.

Reading your long post on this page gracesGran you are against 'snide and denigrating remarks' both in the Commons and on Gransnet, also 'nastiness and oneupmanship' all your words.......and then you post a comment to me like the one above.Such hypocracy, I have to laugh in amazement.

It appears that many of the Lib Dems were "finished" by the machinations of the Conservatives when it came to declaring their expenses roses but perhaps you think that was clever politics.

Oh jane I absolutely don't include those people whose wealth is saved for a rainy day, that to me is simple common sense.
I am talking about those wealthy enough to buy whole companies, to influence governments, to ensure through various undemocratic means that their interests are looked after regardless of whether it for the common good.

Having money saved however much has nothing to do with what I am arguing.

I suppose it all comes down as usual to the definition of 'wealthy'. Your idea of it and mine might be at some variance. I think I'm OK financially right now but anything could happen to rock that boat. Hence my savings (earned, taxed). That looks like capital or 'wealth' to some but my rainy day money to me.

One of the interesting things is how in times of war the whole country is to a degree nationalised, and things like food production and access to food is totally controlled. It cannot be left to the market, as there is a recognition that it would not answer the populations needs, the wealthy have sufficient resources to buy what is necessary but the poor would starve.

That doesn't make too much sense but I hope you get the drift!!!!

No jane what I meant was the conceptualising of the welfare state came about as a result of the recognition that the vast majority of people in the UK needed protection. As does some other industries. For example, many countries have other industries nationalised like, water, transport, education etc. It had nothing to do with unions but everything to do with governments trying to support what they saw as essential industries to the health of a nation. The argument with the unions came later.

Sorry-been out shopping. Anyway re the comment on nationalisation, I don't see the fear of it re NHS as being due to potential profit being removed. I just remember the times when I felt that the big unionised industries held us all to ransom and the economy was going down the tubes. It was scary. I'm sure others might look back on it as 'the good old days but I wouldn't like to see them back.
Its just not black and white -the super rich vs the deserving poor.
Re NHS reading some of the posts here about healthcare in other countries has certainly opened my eyes. I'd automatically thought NHS was best but maybe not. The French model looked good to me.

I am with you on this one lazy economically libertarian. But no surprises there!

Thanks lazy will look at that.

I agree with many posts on here but I think in modern democratic politics "right" and "left" are quite simplistic definitions. If you have 10 mins to spare and if you are interested in a more sophisticated analysis try the 61 questions on social and political topics on political compass.org. I found it complex but interesting and delighted to find myself in the same zone as Gandhi - but am not rushing out to buy loincloth just yet!