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European Union in or out

(1000 Posts)
whitewave Sun 24-Apr-16 11:39:25

With apologies to those sick and tired of it?

NotTooOld Sun 24-Apr-16 11:46:20

I'm out. However, the 'remains' seem to be doing a good job of trying to convince waverers that we should stay in - especially with Obama's input in the last few days. Boris and co will have to work hard to win this one, I think, and it's about time we heard a lot more hard facts from the Brexiters. Cameron will walk it at this rate.

Anniebach Sun 24-Apr-16 11:50:17

In for me, but if I was undecided Boris and Gove would certaintly convinced me to vote in

hildajenniJ Sun 24-Apr-16 11:53:15

I'm out too. I voted to join the EEC, not the European Union! If I'd known then what it would become I would have voted differently. I agree that we need a lot more information from the Brexit camp.

whitewave Sun 24-Apr-16 11:59:47

obieone what is it exactly that you are unhappy about?

I have some things that I to don't like. None of my biggest issues is the democracy gap, but equally I have the same issue in the UK. Now if I just look at this issue, I don't think of giving up and throwing in the towel but I do think of arguing and debating in order to persuade people of my beliefs.

Equally I understand that there is a lot of benefits that we get as being part of the EU. I outlined previously one area of particular interest to me and that is the environmental rulings from the EU. Our wildlife areas, rivers and seas have changed beyond recognition as a result of the EU.

whitewave Sun 24-Apr-16 12:00:59

If those of you that are voting out, and you don't get the information you want will you still vote out?

merlotgran Sun 24-Apr-16 12:01:10

I'm still dithering. I don't like Obama's blackmailing stance especially as he only has another nine months in power so that makes me want to vote OUT

However, I don't like uncertainty any more because I seem to have left my gung-ho spirit somewhere back in the world of work so I will probably vote to stay IN but......on the other hand.....hmm

granjura Sun 24-Apr-16 12:14:59

In - just to many modern issues, problems need joined up thinking and solutions.

And, sorry to say but this is the reality- Britannia just does no longer rules the waves either, whether we like it or not.

NanKate Sun 24-Apr-16 12:16:08


My main reason is that although David Cameron regularly says he is going to reduce down the numbers of people coming to live in the UK, he never succeeds.

I am happy for immigrants to come and use their skills here, it is just the number of them that worries me.

For example I have been unwell recently and tried to get an appointment to see any doctor at my surgery. I was told they were ALL fully booked for the next two weeks ! I am self medicating, hope I don't peg it in the meantime hmm

I accompanied my older sister to A & E it was a total nightmare and I felt I was living in a Third World country.

We have too many people accessing too few Services.

merlotgran Sun 24-Apr-16 12:30:36

I look forward to reading people's points of view on what I hope will be an interesting thread hopefully not weighed down by political bickering but please granjura, don't flog the 'Britain no longer rules the waves' dead horse. hmm

granjura Sun 24-Apr-16 12:35:00

LOL, well it doesn't so hard to not point it out ... I can well see how it is not very palatable, clearly.

BTW do you think British farming will be better out of EU? Genuine question.

Anniebach Sun 24-Apr-16 12:46:00

The FMU say farmers best staying in

Anniebach Sun 24-Apr-16 12:49:21

Obama may be out in a few months but quite possibly Hilary Clinton will be president, she has said the same as Obama

Eloethan Sun 24-Apr-16 12:49:51

I'm still undecided.

Welshwife Sun 24-Apr-16 12:54:59

In for me - I voted to join the last time and we did have an idea then that it would become a more political alliance. The biggest reason for me is still the original reason for looking at a trade alliance. - stopping another European war - Churchill's idea in 1945 and still great reason - who wants to see our young men going to war with a neighbour and leaving home in hoards as they did do twice before.

As to Obama and what he said - I saw it from a very different angle and I thought he was very reasonable and measured in what he said. Boris and Liam Fox, Michael Gove etc have all been all trying to persuade us that USA would be waiting to sign us up to a deal straight away - so Obama said he thought it might be a good idea for him to say what the American view was. He only pointed out that to do a separate deal would take a very long time maybe 5-10 years and in his opinion it was better for UK to remain and lend some weight to the EU. Hilary Clinton has said she feels the same. So not just a man with a few months of office left to run.
The only leader so far to voice the opinion we should leave is Putin and he always has his own agenda! Of course should Trump be elected he may well think the same.

merlotgran Sun 24-Apr-16 12:55:38

Anniebach, I've just googled FMU and got Forced Marriage Unit.

Did you mean NFU?

Although actually........grin

kittylester Sun 24-Apr-16 12:56:48

Merlot posted for me - she often does! wine

daphnedill Sun 24-Apr-16 12:57:31

I'm Remain.

I was just about to post this when the other thread was closed...

Non-EU countries in the richest 30 by GDP

South Korea
Saudi Arabia
South Africa

The trouble with many of those countries is that many of them don't have a high per capita income and, therefore, don't have spare money to buy from the UK. The other huge problem is that many of them are on the other side of the world and already produce the same things we have to sell.

I think the UK would be nuts to leave.

trisher Sun 24-Apr-16 12:57:51

I'm 'in' because I believe co-operation and internationalism are so important. One thing I do wonder, if we vote 'out' can the French then close the Calais immigration camps and just let everyone there onto ferries/trains etc and if so how will we cope?
I would think we need their co-operation to keep things under control there and if we don't have it what will happen? I don't know but maybe someone else does.

Cherrytree59 Sun 24-Apr-16 13:02:44

But think we will remain in.
Most of the voters will not have experienced being out of europe
( myself included, too young for the last vote)
I feel that we are no longer living on a patriotc island any more. (IMO!)
Maybe the younger generations feel more European

Welshwife Sun 24-Apr-16 13:03:16

Macron, a finance minister in France, has said they would have no obligation to either keep the camps open or the border posts on French soil. There is a feeling in some areas that they migrants should not be stopped at Calais and the border checks should be at British ports instead. I feel sorry for Folkstone and Dover if that does happen.

daphnedill Sun 24-Apr-16 13:04:05


If we do leave the EU, it's almost certain that we'll have to agree to free movement of people, just like Norway has, if we want trade agreements with the EU and don't want UK citizens kicked out of the EU.

EU immigrants are net contributors to the NHS, because they pay tax, but tend to be younger and fitter than the people who already live here.

Immigrants from third world countries aren't affected by the EU. In fact, it's likely we'll need more of them if we have fewer EU immigrants.

Don't hold your breath that there will be fewer immigrants - there's no guarantee.

daphnedill Sun 24-Apr-16 13:05:19

People can feel part of Europe and still be patriotic.

Anya Sun 24-Apr-16 13:07:32

I too was leaning towards 'stay in' until I listened to Obama and that has made me cross. I don't mind him saying that he would prefer we stay in, or even that he thinks we would be better off staying in. What pi$$es me off is being treated as naughty children who won't be given their weekly ration of sweets unless we behave ourselves angry

Common sense says that this is, of course, Cameron's misguided attempt to sway opinion his way but something inside says 'sod it- who the hell are they to tell us what to do/'

I think this ill-judged manipulation may have lost some waverers to the 'out' camp.

whitewave Sun 24-Apr-16 13:07:36

Perhaps it's time to look at one of the problems people clearly perceive is wrong with the EU and that is freedom of movement. Particularly of people.

The first thing is to understand why we have freedom of movement of goods, capital, people and latterly services.

Then look at exactly how this affects the UK. This must only be evidence based and not word of mouth.

I'll look it up and get back on this. Be pleased if anyone else wants to pick up and outline this information as well.

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