European Union in or out

The EU is not NATO.

The EU was formed because of what had happened in the first half of the 20Century. It was and still is the intention of containing Germany.

Europe has never had such a long period of peace since the formation of the Union.

Does anyone seriously believe that Germany will start military action against the rest of Europe if the UK leaves the EU...?

Not sure will get back on that ana there has to be an answer to your post but my brain has ceased to work tonight I am knackered after a terrible night last night.

Now, apparently, we will have World War Three breaking out if we leave.
Do you mean on these threads or out there in the RL rosesarered?

Does that mean we've got to stay on the threads all the time, just in case.
We can't leave? Ever?

I wish Cameron would shut up. Just about everything he says is a load of nonsense anyway and he doesn't know what he's talking about. I can't understand why anybody believes him the rest of the time. He didn't say that WW3 would break out, but Johnson is running rings round him - this is a typical Boris hyperbole. It's a game to these Old Etonians. Now he's demanding an apology from the Swedish Prime Minister. He just thrives on this kind of attention-seeking.

No need for WW3 Germany's taken over Europe without a bullet being fired.

Typical hyperbole there, Firecracker.

Firecracker
Yes, Jalima possibly on here as well as RL.☠☠?⚔

Are you Greek Firecracker123?

Hyperbole I don't think so. Angela Merkel is the undisputed leader of Europe (The Guardian 15 Feb 2015).

I don't think that Johnson ran rings around Cameron. I thought Johnson was talking nonsense as well. In fact you would be hard pushed at the moment to find any sense in anything the Tories are saying.

Someone suggested that the hyperbole was deliberate, as the vestiges might remain in someone's consideration when voting, and they will think better to be safe.

Firecracker123, I don't understand your point about Merkel and the reference to hyperbole.

Johnson always uses outrageous hyperboles and exaggeration to whip up popular appeal. Cameron didn't claim what Johnson says he did, but Johnson knew full well that people would rubbish the claim that WW3 is about to break out and would dismiss what Cameron did actually say. It's Eton/Oxford debating society stuff.

I'm not so sure about your argument, ww. I think Cameron is seen as a charlatan by an increasing number of people. Johnson has more charisma and people are more likely to hang on to what he says.

It's a shame that this is coming down to personalities, because the facts are being sidelined.

PS. I agree that both Cameron and Johnson talk nonsense - and nearly always have!

Why on earth has anybody ever voted for either of them?

No I was listening to comments about Cameron's WW3 speech yesterday, and the suggestion was that he was deliberately exaggerating in the hope it would remain in people's conscieness when they came to vote. I know it's all twat but there we are.

It seems to me that we need some bigger and more intelligent personalities to take control. On both sides.

What next, a plague of locusts, a curse on your first born?

I agree, ww. I hardly listen to any of the politicians or anybody else with a clear agenda. It's all a game to them. Whenever anybody comes up some claim or other, I try to look beyond the rhetoric for some facts.

I think Fr Merkel really likes Cameron but she is not one to blow hot and cold and sticks to things she thinks are right. I think Germany is preparing for a Brexit and I would prefer it to a 50/50 situation. What I don't understand is that considering what a mess the NHS is in - an example os Britains sovereignity and good a management - you would think the EU woud be perfect to manage all the other important aspects of life. Safety and anti terrorism. Its not the time to stand alone.

MargaretX With regard to the NHS, if we leave the eu perhaps we can then start checking Doctors/ Nurses/ midwives credentials which is not the case now.
They are given a 'European Professional Card' which means they can come here and work with no checks.
Let's not forget David Gray who died at the hands of a German Doctor with poor English and limited medical knowledge who flew into this country, working for an agency, killed Mr Gray and flew home.
And as for security and anti terrorism, we have some of the best in the world. Are you seriously saying that we need the French and the Belgiums help with security?

With the EU security teams working together by sheer force of numbers and area covered I would think that would be very helpful Petra. The information is sent where it is useful - the people needing to be watched will still move from country to country. Also we will be back to European countries being a safe haven for criminals to run to - we would need extradition agreements with each country - more expensive and time consuming.

That is only the tip of the iceberg!

As to the doctors- I think regulations as to who can get employed have been greatly tightened up. There are now more than thirty pieces of compliance that every doctor needs to have to be employed in UK by any agency etc . That in no way changes the awful things that have been caused by language and other problems but at least the problems have been addressed.
What will happen to the NHS when all the people currently working in UK but not earning £35 are sent home?

MargeretX obviously you are bias living in Germany.

The ordinary British person living with the effects of mass immigration, shortage of school places, my granddaughter couldn't get her first place school. Waiting 2 weeks for a GP appointment, Eastern Europeans taking jobs from you, shortage of rental properties because of influx of migrants. Until you have experienced the negative effects of mass immigration you have no right to comment.

If the UK wishes to continue trading with the EU they will still need to agree to free migration and also pay fees to the Union.