European Union in or out

Jalima, I think Johnson has always been an opportunistic charlatan in everything he has ever done, not just the EU. I don't know that much about Kate Hoey, but I think Frank Field's reasoning is often very suspect. He used to be a good constituency MP, but I don't know why the Birkenhead Labour Party doesn't kick him out, because he doesn't do them many favours. There you are! I've mentioned somebody else.

By coincidence, I have just come across this article about Atlantic Bridge and Liam Fox, Chris Grayling, Michael Gove, etc:
www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/oct/15/liam-fox-atlantic-bridge

Remember Atlantic Bridge and Adam Werritty,Liam Fox's best friend? It was a neo-liberal, pro-US so-called 'charity'closed down after the Charity Commission issued a highly critical report.

They are the backbone of the BREXIT movement. I hope those people who want to leave the EU because they object to being controlled by Brussels have no objection to being controlled by the US, because that's what this lot want. Personally, I'd far rather have the flawed democracy of the EU than secret meetings and dodgy deals.

"It would be just about forgivable for an ignorant-and-proud-of-it politician like Ukip’s Nigel (“Give us a job, Boris”) Farage to make glib Hitler comparisons about the European Union.

But for over-educated Boris Johnson, steeped in classical history and a biographer of Winston “Boris” Churchill, it is both frivolous and deeply offensive. It puts the former mayor of London in the same league as rampaging Donald Trump, another intellectual conman from the metropolitan elite, currently busy trying to mislead poor people for career advantage."

Boris has said he would vote for Trump.
Does anyone really want to side with these people?

No, Johnson did.
Corbyn has enough people against him without starting that rumour, Jalima.

This would be funny if it weren't so serious.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/01/senior-tories-brexit-vote-leave-attacks-david-cameron-letter-nhs-staff

Tory brexiters, whether little or not, but definitely small-minded and opportunistic here, are blaming Cameron for what is happening with the NHS, and warning people not to go along with him, quite forgetting that they all voted for the Health and Social care act.

He wrote two speeches one for remain and one for leave
Do you mean Jeremy Corbyn?

Well, wadyaknow

He's an opportunistic charlatan.
So, really, by the same token, is Jeremy Corbyn an opportunist? He has been anti-EU for all his political career but now finds it expedient to be pro-European - because that is the way he thinks the vote will go?
Or has he 'seen the light'?

I am still so - those on here who are very pro-EU only ever mention Brexit and Boris, Gove et al. They never mention Field, Hoey and Grassroots Out. Presumably they are persona non grata although Graham Stringer apparently had the ear of Jeremy Corbyn and said that JC (allegedly) is still anti-EU but wants to keep the party together.

As thatbags says:
What I also find paradoxical is that people who are usually quite outspoken about the 'big people' seem to think the big people know what they're talking about this time ...quite negatively outspoken...

This is what I am finding so strange on GN. People who decry big business, the TTIP, hate David Cameron, are suddenly in agreement with all these.
However, I don't know if people I know in RL are making such strange alliances.

daphnedill, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Apparently he has been given the sack twice for lying in his career. He wrote two speeches one for remain and one for leave. He went with leave because he figured that was the best chance of gaining the premiership. Hmm! Even the shire Tories who are his natural constituency must be thinking twice. Well I would hope so.

Johnson isn't a 'Little Brexiter'. He's an opportunistic charlatan.

Isn't 'Little Englander' a derogatory term, meaning that people are small minded and lacking a global outlook? Its current usage is different from its historical use. My understanding is that that these days it's used in the same way as 'kleinburgerlich' in Germany and 'petit bourgeois' in France.

I am certainly not thinking of Cameron and cohorts as big people ?.

Noooooooo!! , but others are.

I would be very unhappy for a variety of reasons if the vote is out.

One of them, which is a by-product of the whole sad episode is that we may well faced with Cameron's resignation, and Osborne's and Mays sidelined because of their association. Instead we have the totalling alarming prospect of one of the (little) Brexiters becoming the next PM, with the rest taking cabinet postings. Good grief! What a prospect.

I didn't link the term with little Englanders but if the cap fits

Not saying you are wrong or right, but it doesn't need repeating does it ?(tautology?)

Little Brexiters because they want to shrink our sphere of influence.

As someone who might be considered vertically challenged at 5'2" could I make a plea for the avoidance of "little " as a term of disparagement.
As a term of endearment, that's fine, but sizeist aspersions are out of order.
And for the umpty- umpteenth time "Little Englanders" is not "little " Englanders, but those who did not want to see further Imperial expansion in 19th century, I.e. wanted a "little England". "Little England"- ers. Got it?

...quite negatively outspoken...

It may be true that no large institutions have come out in favour of Brexit. I think that is something that is influencing people who lean towards Brexit, paradoxical as it may seem. The thing is, a lot of people are angry with those, like big institutions, that run the system (part of the reason for Trump's rise in the US, some argue), a system that does not favour the 'little people' so they see opposition to what the power holders want as a way of exercising their voice, which they don't feel is being listened to by the 'big people'.

What I also find paradoxical is that people who are usually quite outspoken about the 'big people' seem to think the big people know what they're talking about this time. Me, I'm not so sure.

little Englanders

little Brexiters.

So the emphasis is "little"
Totally derogatory.

"BIG" non-Englanders
"BIG" Remainers. It feels rude, and I had to force myself to write it.

Writing such things must mean people have all sorts of feelings inside, that I would rather not have.

I am veering (typo)

Or I was veering

Oh, thank you Ana for your explanation.

Even though I veering towards voting to remain, I think that is extremely rude and I wonder, if that is how the Remainers think about people who will vote to leave, whether I would want to be associated with thoughts like that.

But they don't seem to be any shorter or thinner than anyone else

Still

I've been thinking exactly the same, Jalima. It's a derogatory term, like 'little Englanders'.

"Gove, Duncan Smith, Johnson, Patel, etc. Etc. Why?"

You obviously missed her response, Jalima.

Of course our little Brexiters know better
the little Brexiters

Why are Brexiters smaller, shorter, thinner - littler? - than those who want to stay in or are undecided? Do you mean the Brexit politicians or people on here? Are Remainers taller, broader, more imposing in build? And undecideds are somewhere in between I suppose.

whitewave - it is not like you to be sarcastic or facetious