European Union in or out

@durhamjen

This is a summary of the checked facts in your link:

fullfact.org/europe/intelligence-squared-eu-debate-factchecked/

fullfact.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4e4c5a6a441f72299683193db&id=a83788915c&e=6d2d91aa2f

This was a long debate last week. FullFact actually checking the facts and putting people right as it goes along. Starts off by discussing how important the referendum is compared to the general election, and what is meant by a once in a lifetime vote.

Exactly Daphne, time and place for everything.

And yes, it is a VERY serious matter that will impact the UK, that is us and our grand-children for a very very long time.

I am glad our grandchildren are entitled to double citizenship- so that the doors to Europe will remain open to them, if Brexit goes through.

No, I don't expect you do it's a Very Serious Matter and not to be taken lightly.

I mus have been watching too much HIGNIFY.

BAD Anya - go to the naughty step.

There are plenty of areas on GN where you can have a laugh. This area is headed News and Politics. I don't happen to think the referendum is a laughing matter.

Which seem to be in short supply in GrumpNet these days, as Phoenix posted recently.

Lighten up daphne - I was just having a laugh

Unless the UK becomes the low-cost sweat shop of the world (and it would have to go some way to undercut China to be competitive), the future for the UK and other developed countries is not in manufacturing.

Another British company, located in the UK and employing British employees, which makes loads of money is GlaxoSmith Kline. The company earned £24bn in 2015.

^GlaxoSmithKline’s chief executive, Sir Andrew Witty, has waded into the EU referendum debate, saying that Britain is “much better off inside the EU than outside”.

Witty backed the prime minister’s efforts to renegotiate the terms of Britain’s EU membership. But whichever way the negotiations go, he stressed the importance of remaining in the European Union.

“We regard Europe as a significant economic bloc, it is important to us from a regulatory perspective, but it also creates some levels of predictability. Could it be improved? Of course it could be improved, we would encourage the government to work hard to improve it, but we believe it is better to be in and improving than to be on the outside and trying to plot a new course,” he said.^

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/03/britain-better-inside-eu-says-glaxosmithkline-andrew-witty

Yes, we should worry. The UK still 'produces' plenty, even though you might not be able to see it. The most important products are financial services and intellectual property. For example, ARM designs and develops computer chips, but doesn't actually make them themselves. It's estimated that over 50 billion ARM designed chips have been produced (most smart phones and tablets have them), making ARM and the UK loads of money. The company, based in Cambridge and British owned, is worth approximately £14bn.

ARM's chief finance officer said:

"World-leading technology company ARM Holdings (ARM.L) said a vote to leave the European Union by the British electorate, the so-called Brexit, would hinder its ability to employ the scientists and engineers it needs.

ARM, which designs the chips that power nearly all of the world's smartphones including Apple's iPhone and Samsung's top models, is the most valuable tech company listed in London."

@harrigran

Please could you give some details of this security warning, so that people can check their own computers. Is it only appearing when you click links and what does it say?

I doubt if it's anything to do with an individual's computer, but the links. Your own anti-virus software should be able to take care of them. It might be that your settings are very high.

If it's only appearing when you're on Gransnet, it would be a good idea to inform the site owners.

If we are allowing quotes from non-politicians (which is a splendid idea) I'd like to proffer this.

"Great Britain has the world's sixth largest economy, but as far as I can see see it doesn't make much of anything any more. Whitbread doesn't brew beer. Tate & Lyle no longer refines sugar. Only five of Britain's largest companies manufacture any products at all in the UK now. So few industrial companies are left that the Financial Times has taken the word 'industrial' out of the Financial Times Industrial Average, its principal measure of corporate well-being.

When I was a child, Britain made a quarter of all that was produced in the world (though to be fair, my being a child had very little to do with it); now the figure is 2.9 per cent and falling. These days Britain makes Rolls-Royce jet engines and all the little pots of marmalade in the world, but that's about it, as far as I can tell.

Nearly everything that's left seems to be owned by foreigners. French companies own Hamley's toy store, Glenmorangie whisky, Orange mobile phones, Fisons pharmaceuticals and EDF, the power company. E.ON and Npower are German. Scottish Power is Spanish. United Biscuits, which makes McVitie's digestives, Jaffa Cakes and Hula Hoops, is owned by Yildiz, a Turkish company. Jaguar, Blue Circle Cement, British Steel, Harrods, Bass breweries, most of the main airports, several of the most important football teams ... are all foreign owned. Fewer than half of Britain's companies even have a British-born chairman.

HP and Daddies sauces are made in Holland. Smarties are made in Germany. Raleigh bikes are made in Denmark. In 2010, RSB, a failed Scottish bank owned by the British Government, lent the money to the American food conglomerate Kraft to buy Cadbury's, Britain's most venerable chocolate maker. As part of the deal Kraft promised to keep open a factory near Bristol, but it was just fooling. As soon as the deal was complete, Kraft closed the factory and shipped its machinery to Poland."

The Road to Little Dribbling by Bill Bryson

And we are worrying about being 'in' or 'out' of the EU!

Jalmia. Sorry my post re Australia was not clear. What I meant was that i could visit many countries without the bother of a visa, but not Australia. I went to Australia regularly and had a business visa.

I know it is not your computer practical because it has stopped this morning, perhaps it has spurred someone into updating their security or that person has not posted this morning.

I'm quite aware it was from Delia, even if I hadn't read WW's post. My point was you obviously echo her views so they are your views too and to be honest it was way OTT (Delia not you {just to be clear so GG doesn't throw her dummy out the pram - or is that a different thread?}]

Oh dear! We have over 3 weeks to go and all bases must have been covered but arguments are not only being recycled but becoming more vitriolic and desperate by the day. If there is not a decisive outcome there is even talk of another referendum. God help us. I wonder if Cameron envisaged this and the damage it is doing to his party when he agreed to this time and money wasting exercise?

Someone described him as Poundstretcher Trump. Rather apt I thought after last night's performance.

Anyone watch Johnson on Countryfile last night?

I have never heard such a load of nonsense in my life. He didn't even make sense.

Please don't tell me he will be the next Tory leader and PM.

Sorry - 13:40:28 whitewave

Who is the most respected Gran - is that Delia? She is not a Gran as far as I know but her views are as valid as anyone's.

No, I am not saying your views are vitriolic daphnedil
But I have read one or two others which are
And one doesn't have to be a leftwinger to agree with your post of Sunday 13:14:28 whitewave (hope that is the right one)

GandTea I am very surprised that you found it impossible to visit Australia on business over the years; visas are required certainly, but many of my friends and relatives have been going there - since the 1930's (not First Fleet) and many have subsequently settled there.

Certainly it has become more difficult recently probably as a reaction to the UK's attitude to Commonwealth citizens and their inward-looking preference for the EU.

I'm sure that other countries (not only Europe) are very concerned. A vote to leave would almost certainly trigger a recession to some degree or other. Any major economic change always does.
If we exit, get ready to tighten your belts.

Interesting how daily we are now being persuaded by other parts of the Euro to remain. Who said we had no influence?

Now it is the turn of the Irish :
Brexit may bring border controls, says Irish PM
Kenny warns of checks at Northern Ireland crossings
Irish voters in UK urged to back stay campaign
Ben Quinn
The Irish prime minister, Enda Kenny, has raised the prospect of border controls being reimposed between Northern Ireland and the Republic as he appealed directly to hundreds of thousands of Irish people living in Britain to vote to stay in the EU.
Risking the wrath of leave campaigners by becoming the third foreign leader after Barack Obama and the Japanese prime minister, Shinzo Abe, to intervene while in Britain, Kenny warned that a Brexit would adversely affect Ireland in terms of trade with Britain and could result in the establishment of custom and border controls between the two countries.
“Ireland in Europe would still stand by Britain being a member of the union and of its importance, but I have no idea what other European countries, how they would look at Britain whether they decide to leave, given the fact that we’ve come a long way since the 1970s,” said Ireland’s taoiseach, as he attended a Gaelic football match in north-west London.
“So whether there would be border controls or custom controls, these things are a possibility but obviously they would require some very serious negotiations and my preference for the Irish electorate who have a significant part in this referendum is to vote to stay, for Britain to stay as a strong and central member of the European Union for the future.”
The intervention came as 30 Irish opinion formers, business and media figures working in Britain wrote to the Guardian to urge their compatriots to register to vote by 7 June and back the remain side, citing concerns including the peace process. “The fact that both the UK and Ireland are members of the EU was – and is – a hugely important factor in the continuing success of the peace process in Northern Ireland, which has abolished the once heavily policed border with the Republic,” said the letter’s signatories, who included the former WTO director general and EU commissioner Peter Sutherland, and Ronan Dunne, CEO of Telefonica.
Others included the fashion designer Paul Costelloe, and Dermott Rowan, husband of designer Orla Kiely and chief executive of the company he founded with her. The letter was released by the Irish4Europe group before the separate launch of a viral video campaign based on the “Ring Your Granny” strategy used last year during Ireland’s marital equality referendum, which saw younger voters seeking to activate and influence the votes of relatives.

Have you worked in IT practical?