harrigran that's fine if you don't open links but for those that do, any links I put up are safe, I have been on computers long enough to have the best protection.
Why doesn't Starmer hold another referendum?
With apologies to those sick and tired of it?
harrigran that's fine if you don't open links but for those that do, any links I put up are safe, I have been on computers long enough to have the best protection.
Hello Whitewave yes I just joined today , but I have had a computer for about 25 years.
Do you mean security warnings when you click the links?
I click on some links and have never had a security warning.
Whilst talking of links I have been getting security warnings, someone posting on Gransnet has a computer with less than adequate security.
Not at all practical, I never open links.
And if we think it's interesting we will read your links, probably when we have finished reading DJ's
practical hello are you new to gransnet?
can anyone show me a rule that says it's not acceptable for a new poster to post links. I have been to look and can't find anything. I do a lot of research and if I think something is useful to anyone I like to post the link.
Oh I didn't see that in the rules will go look again.
Is it not acceptable for new posters to post links ,
is that a problem harrigran?
I a getting a little deja vu on here, a new member who likes posting links.
Perhaps the 58% of gransnetters who voted to leave in the gransnet poll will have a look as well.

practical Thanks will have a look at them.
Over the hill and firecracker123 Here are two video's you might find interesting
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyBr9RNx4k0
www.brexitthemovie.com/
They are rather long but worth watching
Oh dear! That's what happens when people quote directly and don't use links 


PS. I agree with you, gd, it was a very level-headed article from Delia.
That was a quote from the piece written by Delia Smith Anya so perhaps your "mockery" should be directed at her.
Scare tactics from both sides.
What on earth makes you realise think your views above are mock-worthy GD
"it is our responsibility to help to prepare the way to a united humanity in the belief it can make the world a better place. Evolution, as history has shown (really?*) will not be knocked off course by a small group of islands claiming they want "sovereignty" (sic)
* my parenthesis
‘The daily scare tactics
beggar belief – they’re
not working’
These comments by Delia Smith on the EU debate are the most common sense one I have read during the debate. I would recommend all to take few minutes to read and digest.
The Europe debate is an unsavoury mixture of vicious
rhetoric and petty squabbles – and it’s time to grow up,
says Delia Smith
One of the best expressions of sheer frustration that’s stuck with me over the years came from the comedian TonyHancock, who in moments of extreme disquiet repeated the words oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Now the mere mention of the dreaded referendum and those words are what spring to mind. Oh dear indeed.
First, why is the entire nation being put under this unnecessary pressure? We already get to vote for a democratic system, where all the big decisions are meant to be made on our behalf. Instead, faced with this very grave decision which has such serious implications, we find ourselves pawns in a game of dubious political manoeuvring. The prime minister, seeking to outwit the troublemakers on the right of his party, has instead managed to add massive fuel to their fire. And in doing so, he has simply cleared the way for one of their own to seize the moment. So a leave vote could give you the prospect of a brand new prime minister, and a remain vote gives you same old, same old, and off we go, back to square one.
‘We will cast a vote that
will affect not just our
lives but the future of
generations to come’
Meanwhile we, the long-suffering British voters, are subjected to what Jon Snow on Channel 4 news rightly described as a “positively poisonous” campaign. The much-maligned European Union, which in essence is a group of democratic countries attempting to work alongside each other, has now become a fierce battleground in the direct firing line of some vicious rhetoric. The most abhorrent and offensive of all was the EU being compared to, of all things, Hitler and Nazism. Hang on a minute, isn’t there a crossed wire here somewhere? Was it not within that horrendous regime that the very idea of egotistical, xenophobic and isolationist sovereignty was originally conceived?
The now daily dose of scare tactics simply beggars belief, and do you know what? It so isn’t working. Because at this stage, I’m sure you agree, we voters are just reduced to having a laugh. What else can you do when you are told there are 70 million Turks lining up, like the Zulus in the Stanley Baker film, coming over the hill, set on seizing our jobs, our homes, our lives.
But hats off to the TV coverage that accompanied the story, showing us what that ancient and wondrous Turkish civilisation was all about. They found shots of the most amazing kebabs, laden with spices and dripping with juices over flaming charcoal, just so we could understand what the Turkish threat might mean. What it achieved in our house was a resounding: “Bring it on!”
Frankly, the current state of politics is pants in this debate. Politics are there to serve the people and not the other way round. So, why don’t we simply short-circuit the daily threats and angry squabbles, and from now on engage in some proper grownup, joined-up thinking, about the real issues.
What each of us is being asked to do is cast a vote that will affect not just our lives, but the future of generations to come. Each of us must reflect quietly and independently about this vote. What shapes my own vision of things is this. Almost imperceptibly (but then again, perhaps also staring us in the face) is that the world, whether we like it or not, is slowly beginning to become a global community. And this, while it may or may not take centuries to achieve, simply has to be the future.
With the advent of high-speed travel, communications technology, satellites and the rest, we are already living in much closer proximity to one another than we could previously have imagined. Young people hop from country to country exploring, experiencing other cultures, forming friendships across the globe, and this gives them a far greater sense than previous generations of being comfortable belonging to the much wider human family, a completely diverse but nonetheless enriching collection of democratic nations.
The results are plain as day for all to see. Why have we now achieved so much in science or in say, space exploration? Because scientists from groups of nations work closely together. The same with advances in medicine and practically any other field of invention and progress. The global village is not some romantic dream, it’s a reality.
No, I’m not a naive optimist and yes, I know only too well about the bureaucratic challenges of different nations attempting to work alongside each other. I may well be mocked for my views but again, bring it on! I believe passionately in the human adventure, and that individual people as well as individual nations will in time, in spite of how long it might take, embrace solidarity and the global society.
It is our responsibility to help to prepare the way to a united humanity in the belief that it can make the world a better place. Evolution, as history has shown, will not be knocked off course by a small group of islands claiming they want “sovereignty”.
So there it is. As you may well have guessed by now. I am quite definitely in. And I want to do everything in my power to encourage you to add your support to our membership in a group of nations who, for all their imperfections, are learning how to coexist in a converging world.
I was most impressed by these rather down to earth comments from a most respected Gran
Does anyone know what the Scottish polls are showing?
JessM it is indeed fascinating, and sad, that people from areas where there are very few immigrants have much more vociferous views about immigrants. Same all over, not just in the UK. Same in rural France and rural Switzerland, where I live (VERY close to France so in daily contact).
And also (remember Arthur Miller 'View from the Bridge'?) how second or third generation immigrants made good are often very anti new immigration.
The possibility of such a reactionary government is amongst the many reasons a lot of my friends are voting remain.
What people perhaps forget is that barely 25% of the U.K. Voted for the current government, and they don't like what they've got at the moment, but it could be even worse
Those of us who are not conservative voters, have two issues, the first is whether to vote in or out. The second issue is being appalled at the level of debate, and the implication of what the UK will look like should the vote be out, particularly with the knowledge that we will almost certainly have a government formed from the Brexit camp.
Their right wing reactionary statements give me the willies.
Difficult to tell exactly Jalima because if you go out onto the streets and talk to people some of them say that we should leave because of "immigrants" Some of them because of the Syrians and some because of "the illegal immigrants"
. These are obviously not carefully thought out views. And these are people who live in an area where there are virtually no immigrants. They don't usually come out and say which colour of immigrants... but they edge around the topic looking a bit shamefaced.
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