Ken Livingstone

John Mann is NOT anti-semitic, whatever gave you that idea?Just the opposite in fact! that is why he had a go at KL.

I suspect he is anti Palestine and supports anyone who are also anti Palestine. My argument is that his pro Jewish activities may not be based in anything more than a way to get rid of Palestine.

"John Mann, the Labour MP who is chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group Against Antisemitism, denounced Kaufman's comments as "the incoherent ramblings of an ill-informed demagogue." because Kaufman spoke up for Palestinians.
But maybe you think that's OK racism?

Mann has also called for Kaufman to resign. He's certainly not neutral and is actively pro-Israel, not just anti-Semitic. He strongly supports the argument that it's racist to criticise Israel.

Mann is also anti-Jeremy Corbyn. Last year he accused Corbyn of being sympathetic to child sex abusers.

I find his motivation a bit suspect.

Nevertheless, Livingstone was a fool and should have known better. I've never had much time for him, because I think he's arrogant and he's so convinced that he's right and he's justified in 'saying it how it is' without looking at the wider picture. He obviously doesn't know much about history, but has picked up on one fact to support whatever view he was trying to support. I'm not even sure what his point was.

Naz Shah probably does have enemies in Bradford. She unseated George Galloway by quite a big majority and Galloway then accused her of voting fraud, although he never took any action.

By the way, it was Paul Staines (aka Guido Fawkes), who is very much right-wing, who broke the story about Naz Shah.

I'm usually very suspicious of conspiracy theories, but in this case I'm convinced that there is at least one hidden agenda.

That's interesting, daphne. Hadn't realised it was him, that well-known writer for the Sun.

Isn't he also a tax dodger?

Can a Jew be anti Semitic ?

Kaufman whose grandmother was shot dead by Nazi soldiers is on record for stating-

My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering grandmothers in Palestine

I've met Gerald Kaufman many a time, and have great respect for him.

This speech in 2009 is moving and shows clearly why anti-semetism and anti-zionism are totally different:

youtu.be/qMGuYjt6CP8

Key statement at 1.40

Annie - plenty of Jews disapprove of the Israeli govt's actions against the Palestinians. Whether that can be called anti-semitic I'm not sure.
What's unusual about Kaufman is that he's so open about it in the UK Parliament. In Israel there's lots of splits, not just against the govt. (leftwing v right) but secular V religious, Ashkenaz v. Sephard, etc.
Are they anti-semitic to criticise those of their own race?

Tricia, if Mann is to be believed any Jew who criticises Israel is anti Semitic, I am now fed up of Israel being put forward as a sacred cow. Can't recall who was quoted sorry but heard today - Israel is for Jews only and no other race

At the end of 2015:
Jews 6.1million
Arabs 1.7 million
Others 350,000, including some African refugees.
The Arabs have a quite significant representation in the Knesset.

Pure irony.

So Livingstone has said nothing wrong, it is a smear campaign by the right wing press, the Tories and Labour MP's and the Party., he has never said anything untoward .

John Mann who is the Chair of The All Party Parliamentary Group Against Anti Semitism is now the demon in this sorry saga.

You couldn't make it up.

It amazes me how easy some simply don't even believe the words of those in the Labour Party who have been very vocal over the last few ' weeks ' . If John Mann is talking rubbish and smearing the Labour Party then no doubt there will be the same howls against other Labour MP's such as Louise Ellman, Wes Streeting, Chris Bryant, Luciana Berger, Frank Field, Ana Turley, Lucy Powell, Tom Watson, Andy Burnham, Yvette Cooper , the list goes on and on .

Hell on another thread it was noted even John McDonnel in March 2016 called for a permanent ban from the Labour Party for Anti Semetic behaviour, even if they claim to have changed their opinions. Is he now a right wing, smear mongerer ?

labourlist.org/2016/03/mcdonnell-demands-life-bans-for-any-party-member-with-anti-semitic-views/
www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/03/john-mcdonnell-labour-listen-antisemitism-claims

President Carter on Apartheid in Gaza:

youtu.be/uvtC_qzHVM4

My exact thought POGS 'you couldn't make it up' .... Shows how people are willing to delude themselves.

Then I hope they also hold the same stand for all racists. There is no difference between a person who speaks out against Jews and those who speak out against Muslims,

All you ,list are .blairites POGS ,

What a strange world, .jimmy Carter Nobel prize awarded is anti anti Semitic , a racist

So Kaufman is to be thrown out of the Labour Party

Rosesarered, as you feel so strongly about this discussion do you believe Jimmy Carter was lying?

POGS (quote):

So Livingstone has said nothing wrong,

who on earth said this here, please? What he said was wrong, stupid and objectionable in the extreme.

What Kaufman says in the video, particularly at 1.40 - is absolutely and totally spot on. I cannot understand in any shape, way or form, how a people that suffered so terribly would turn out to believe that it gave them the God given right to make another people suffer so- and that the rest of the world would stand by, our of guilt for what happened in the Holocaust. That is in no way anti-Semetic, and someone with a family history like Kaufman's has the right and duty to stand up and say so.

My post had nothing to do with a link to youtube ( I rarely read given links in the forum.)

What a pity roses- as Gerald Kaufman's video of his speech in the House of Commons is a real eye opener to his family history and his vast knowledge on Israel and Palestine, and could really help anyone to see he couldn't possibly be called antisemite.

But this topic we are discussing has very much to do with what President Carter said Rosesarered

You couldn't make it up POGS

[[http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day]
Probably been linked previously, so apologies if it has.

Livingstone is a self-serving egotist and Jeremy Corbyn was ill advised to set such store by his views.

sorry
[http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day]]

what!!

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/29/jeremy-corbyn-interview-ken-livingstone-it-is-not-a-happy-day