Kids on strike

Oh yes! I have children. I was a single parent with a full-time job and two school age children for 15 years. I feel I achieved something getting through those years.

PS. AND I know what a subjunctive is! I'm multi-talented!

I am very impressed daphnedil!

And I should have added being able to provide for your children if you have any. You can make their clothes (I did) but you can't make new shoes and their feet grow so fast.

It's certainly one way of measuring achievement and having enough money to pay for a roof over your head and food in your tummy helps. The opposite is grim.

However, I do know a couple of people who have virtually nothing, but are brilliant at making things (one is a gardener and the other a carpenter). Both take enormous pride in what they achieve with their own creativity and work.

On the other hand, I know people who seem to 'have it all' but aren't fulfilled. Fifteen or so years ago, I was one of them. I even knew the difference between a coordinating and subordinating conjunction!

It depends what you mean by achievement anyway
I suppose different things to different people.
But, judging by a lot of posts on a lot of threads, having a job/career which is fulfilling, making a good difference to the world in general, having a salary sufficient to meet your needs including buying a property - as the alternative all seems to be such an unhappy struggle if you are not independent.

I would also add that results at 16 are often a poor predictor of what someone achieves by their late 30s!

Agreed! It depends what you mean by achievement anyway.

I don't remember at primary school doing any specific practice for the 11+, although I know that a couple of pupils had tutors. The only practice I ever remember doing was being taken to the hall the day before the 11+ exam and practising lining up in alphabetical order and how to fill in the front of the paper with our name and DOB in the right boxes. I knew the exam was important and the secondary school I attended would depend on the result. It mattered more to my parents than it did to me at the time.

What all this testing has shown is that results at 5 are a poor predictor of results at 16 or 18
and I would also add that results at 16 are often a poor predictor of what someone achieves by their late 30s!

You must be a lot younger than I am Lilyflower - we concentrated on taking the 11+ and those of us who looked like we might pass were hot-housed with extras homework and extra classes.
Anya I don't remember extra homework but the whole class concentrated for part of the week on 'test papers' for two years before the exam. I took it at age 9 (without a middle-class background or pushy parents!) - however, thank goodness I didn't pass the first time. I think we had to take a maturity test too (I don't think I was a very mature 9 year old).

I passed my 11+, as did about half of the children in my very ordinary state primary school and we never had any homework. The headmaster of the school didn't even believe in selection, so we had loads of fun: pond-dipping, measuring the height of trees and going on walks. We did spend time in the classroom - sitting round tables, helping each other when needed.

PS. Actually it wasn't an ordinary school. It was a very progressive school and my parents were a bit hesitant about sending me there, but it had the best 11+ pass rate in town by far. We had spelling and times tables tests, but I don't remember any other testing.

I agree, trisher. The secondary schools where I worked hardly took any notice of SATs tests, because we knew that some primary schools taught to the test. We used to administer NFER CATs and a reading test. The CATs tests look a bit like IQ tests and it's difficult to cram for them.

There is a much stronger correlation between CATs and GCSEs than SATs and GCSE. The reading tests were interesting, because children with a high reading level at 11 but only average CATs scores tended to come from highly supportive (pushy) backgrounds. At the beginning of their life at secondary school they usually did well, but their advantage wore off as they were required to use higher level cognitive skills. Many of them reached a plateau.

What all this testing has shown is that results at 5 are a poor predictor of results at 16 or 18.

If the tests were able to show working class children who are brighter and who are capable of achieving more teachers might be much more open to them. As it is the same argument can be leveled at them as that made about the PIPs (administered when children start school) i.e. it is a cultural test that children from poor backgrounds fail because they do not have the vocab or the experiences to answer the questions.

You must be a lot younger than I am Lilyflower - we concentrated on taking the 11+ and those of us who looked like we might pass were hot-housed with extras homework and extra classes.

Happily I was a little swot and soaked it all up, but looking back, I suspect my acceptance into Grammar School was possibly at the expense of other children.

There's a lot to be said for and against testing. When I was a child in primary school we just got on with things and concentrated on learning and being happy and most children finally achieved at their ability level.

However, it wasn't too difficult to see that the middle class kids did better whether they were brighter or not (and often not) because their parents intervened in their education.

The current complaints about the SATs seem to be coming from mainly middle class parents who do not want their children stressed, put under pressure or made unhappy. One of the reasons for this is that they know that their children will succeed with their genes and their targeted help whatever their ability level.

In this case I'd say that the SATs are invaluable for working class children in that they provide a measure of objectivity and alert teachers (who can be fooled by charm, good manners and pushy parents) to the bright child from a poorer background so that the child will be given a chance to succeed.

In my secondary school we administered the MIDYIS raw ability test years before the SATs were instigated and we thus had an idea of each child's potential regardless of parental class or income. Those children who achieved highly were not allowed to sink because of other factors like unsupportive parents or poor behaviour. My Head of Department would never allow a bright, lazy or stroppy pupil to be demoted from a high set, bless him and those children got the chance they deserved to gain good GCSEs. The current SATs could be used in the same way.

The best I can do is that, if my GS reaches the 'national standard' in SPAG, he will be able to underline an indeterminate number of indeterminate grammatical terms, that compared to other children's underlining of indeterminate numbers of indeterminate grammatical terms, will yield, at least, a 'standardised score' of 100 from whatever 'raw score' he achieves."

Not in the slightest FarNorth, she enjoys them!
(she was vomiting because of a bug which has gone around, we stayed away!)

Hattie or we could be teaching children it important to have a voice and not become subjugated! It is all right to go against authority if the authority is behaving badly! public protest is a sign of a healthy democracy.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the tests and I cannot make up my mind, I very much disagree with encouraging children to "strike". This is telling them that it is alright to go against authority so it's ok to disregard what their teachers - AND parents - are trying to do to help them become responsible citizens.

And was your DGD stressed about the tests, Jalima?

I might add that her parents are not in the least stressed about the tests, one way or the other.

Of course 11 year olds should be able to punctuate accurately and know the main parts of speech (nouns, verbs, etc), but they really do NOT need to know the terminology for a subordinating conjunction, the past progressive, the subjunctive, etc
I agree with that daphnedil, well said.

And I also agree with the following from LullyDully
I am wondering what messages are being sent to children if they say they were ill when they were dancing amid the bluebells on a sunny day.
Also there is a photo of children carrying no to sats banners....not sure I approve of using children to fight an adult battle. What will be the lasting effect on their attitudes to school and exams?

And what happens to a conscientious child who didn't go to school because they were ill? (vomiting profusely!). DGD can't be the only one.

Although here in Scotland we are not involved in the current "protests" against testing I think most parents are concerned about the effect these tests have on young children. I have my grandson four days a week after school and do his homework with him. He has a reading book, word wall, words and a sentence to write and quite a variety of arithmetic to get through. We have four nights to do it and have to spend a minimum of one hour each session. The teaching methods are so different these days and when he starts talking about "clever connectives" I wonder how long I'll be able to keep up!! He is 6 yr old and in P1.

Agreed, vampire queen, re assessment system. I worked on the pilot for the teacher assessment system called Assessing Pupils' Progress (APP) a few years ago, and it was used successfully in schools for a while. The teachers did the assessing, but ( vital point) they had to produce the evidence from the children's work. We also worked on a system of moderating between schools. I've never understood why it was dropped.

I am wondering what messages are being sent to children if they say they were ill when they were dancing amid the bluebells on a sunny day.

Also there is a photo of children carrying no to sats banners....not sure I approve of using children to fight an adult battle. What will be the lasting effect on their attitudes to school and exams?

Children need to be kept on board not hear their parents wittering on.

Not that I approve of the stupid heights the tests have come to. I did think the spokesman yesterday who got his answer wrong was a bit cheeky to blame his own education. I do agree with you vampire queen.

Exactly BRedhead59.
It's the fact that they're missing out on other subjects and activities. In summer they should be outside playing games and sport, as well as inside with more creative acitivities, and reading exciting books, at whatever level they're at.
English grammar is a minor part of education

It's not about stress - it's about spending the whole summer teaching to a test rather than educating

I worked as a TA at our local primary school for 30 years.my children went to the same school up until about 12 years ago it was a lovely friendly school with a great team of teachers and staff.now I hear from my friends that are still there that it's the most saddest and stressful place to be.Children are not free to be there selves and to enjoy school anymore schools should not be run by the government.

A pig never got fat by being weighed.