NHS

Lazigirl

I am extremely worried about the NHS. The so called "Future Fit" programme want to close an A/E unit in Shropshire leaving only one for a large population that covers quite a chunk of mid Wales. Surely this can't be what those who voted for this government envisaged.

I am puzzled as to why a large number of the Welsh population is using the hard-pressed English NHS. The Welsh people voted for a Labour Assembly (it is not so predominantly Labour since the recent election I grant you). The Welsh Assembly runs the NHS in Wales so what is going wrong there - why is there no hospital to service the people of Mid-Wales? That is unfair on the people of Shropshire whose waiting lists will presumably be longer because of this.

Interesting and good that someone is on the case dj, but no doubt JH will wheedle his way out. I'm feeling quite depressed about the whole thing.

nhaspace.com/2016/05/24/open-letter-from-dr-clive-peedell-to-jeremy-hunt-regarding-the-legality-of-the-latest-top-down-nhs-reorganisation/

Interesting. Is the new Simon Stevens reorganisation even legal?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/05/24/why-we-can-and-why-we-should-now-have-a-wealth-tax/

Richard Murphy's latest reasoning on inequality.

You are right about health issues not being black and whit dj and I am really sorry to hear about your husband and your health problem. Our society is a very unequal one and becoming more so. In their book the Spirit Level by Picket and Wilkinson, published about 4 years ago, they show that the more unequal economically a society becomes, the more there is a rise in mental health, and other health issues, as well as other problems, too many to go into here. So it is much more complex than simply taking personal responsibility for our health.

"Food and drink for human consumption is usually zero-rated but some items are standard-rated, including alcoholic drinks, confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks and mineral water."

I call that a tax on the sort of foods we are not supposed to eat.

Gangy5, thanks. You do not have to read all the links, just the ones that sound most interesting.

I thought there was more tax on cigarettes, alcohol and sugar. I do not understand how people can afford to smoke these days.

For over thirty years I have been vegetarian, eaten organic food, walked most days, swam when I could, same as my husband did.
It didn't stop him from dying from a brain tumour, or me having an aortic dissection. Neither of us was overweight. I think we took responsibility for our own health. It's not always black and white.

Sluttygran, private health care companies cream off the stuff that makes them a profit. The NHS is left with the things that the private companies do not want to bid for. When there is no longer an NHS, the private companies will put their prices up.

Our big general hospital has sold off several of its wards and departments to private health care companies. They undertake treatment of NHS patients and are paid by the NHS for doing so.
This seems a very odd way of going about it, but apparently, the private care company can carry out treatments more quickly and efficiently than the present NHS set-up, AND they make a profit!
I recently had a minor operation there, and I had no complaints at all. It was spotlessly clean ( they have their own hygiene team) efficient, well-staffed and comfortable.
I am not in favour of private medicine, and am a great advocate for the NHS, but how does a situation like this arise? I can only surmise that bad management practices might be to blame.

There's the rub: sorting the sheep from the goats, so to speak. What do you think of the idea of more tax on things like sugar, nicotine and alcohol, vamp?

I'm obese. I have an eating disorder amongst my many other mental health issues. I object to my obesity being classed as self inflicted. It's part of my medical condition.

I also self harm. At times I've been to a and e because I've cut too deep. Should I be penalised for that too? After all my wounds are self inflicted.

Or shall we have the deserving obese etc and the undeserving? Prove yourself to be deserving and you can have treatment. Fail to prove it and tough.

If a golden ratio is required for the NHS, why not for education, social services, police, prisons, and defence? And suppose GDP grows less quickly than necessary health service expenditure? Would there have to ba a cutback to stick to the formula?

PS to Durhamjen - I do wish you wouldn't include so many links - I haven't the patients to read them!!

Durhamjen thumbs up to a really good suggestion!!

And individual responsibility DJ?

“The UK spends among the lowest of any developed nation on health. It is not enough. To protect the NHS and the considerable value for money it offers, the government must show leadership. I’m calling for an independent commission to set a golden ratio of GDP spend on healthcare free from short-term political priorities.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/23/nhs-10bn-a-year-black-hole-2020-cipfa-report

Four years away.

Anya you are right, mental health at any age is a whole new can of worms. However, the same idea applies, try to treat the root cause, by whatever means is available.
I have had mental health problems, and did/do turn to alcohol sometimes. But I was lucky that my Doctor refereed me for treatment and it has been successful in enabling me to live a normal and productive life most of the time. (there are those that say normal for me is still a bit weird )

POGS says that the NHS should be a cross party matter but Eloethan questions it's running on neutral terms. Nothing is working well with current governments running the NHS. This system will not 'operate' successfully when every 5 years new initiatives are introduced and systems are interfered with.
If a cross party system of direction is not going to work - there must be another way, although I'm not sure what. It is obvious that as things are - it will never work. If efficiently directed, I am optimistic that the monies pumped in to the NHS at the moment would be more than enough to go round and - in the interests of everyone - this rotten government should raise taxes and bury it's own self interests.
I have a little knowledge of 'lean operations' and am confident that this would be of help in assisting efficiency and reducing costs. This would not be costly if introduced into one trust and then rolled out to others if successful.
The NHS needs an 'emergency operation'!!!

Of course the irony is that many of those teenagers with mental health issues will turn to drugs and/or alcohol as a means of coping.

This message needs to be out across loud and clear bags - but I wonder how many people will accept this shift in thinking?

It's an interesting point Tb's.

Persuasion to stop self inflicted unhealthy life styles certainly would save lives and money (it would be good that any extra taxes raised went into the NHS).

I've just read an article by Clare Foges in which she says that (I'm paraphrasing; don't seem to be able to get a link), while the NHS in England (NHSE) is in debt to the tune of £2.45billion, it costs them £2.8billion a year to treat health problems linked to excess alcohol consumption, another £2billion on smoking related health problems and, as for obesity and its related health issues, it's apparently "a slow motion car crash" according to Simon Stevens, CE of NHSE.

SO, Foges argues, "Part of the answer to the NHS's financial problems must lie in curbing lifestyle-driven demand through a more radical nanny state". I interpret this as meaning she's in favour of the sugar tax, but that we need more "sin taxes". This goes against normal Tory philosophy: Libertarians argue that if you are doing no harm the government should butt out. But if lifestyle choices have a direct impact on the NHS, which Foges is arguing they do, then in a sense your choices are doing harm: they are harming the NHS for everyone.

The "coda to live and let live", she say, is "let the NHS take the strain". Meanwhile teenagers with mental health problems are having to wait months for treatment, and very old people are vying for the attention of overstretched nurses, to mention just a couple of unfairnesses that result from that strain.

She has a point.

I live in a country where we pay (about £20) for each visit to a GP and a little less for an appointment with a practice nurse. We also pay for prescription drugs, antibiotics, etc. though not so highly as in the UK, and extra for such things as the speculum when a woman has a cervical cancer smear or for blood tests. Breast cancer screening is free. GP visits for children under five are free and there is a plan to extend that to children under ten. At the moment and until that happens, there are poor families who simply cannot afford to take a sick child to their GP and who have to wait until the illness has become severe enough to go to A & E, where the treatment and possible hospitalisation is free. Emergency treatment and necessary treatment in hospital is free. At the same time, we are in the unenviable position of having the highest rate of melanoma in the world and are still using massively outdated 40-year-old methods when there is much better modern treatment that is described as "not cost-effective" although it used in many other countries, including Australia, which also has a major problem with melanoma.

It is very different from living in the UK and I should hate to see the NHS to change even to this halfway system. To change to something like the system that exists in the USA would be both disastrous and horrendous.

I'm not holding mine either, eloethan. I appreciate the fact that you understand my point. I was beginning to think I wasn't speaking plain English on this thread.

Anyone know what's happened to David Nicholson, the man who fronted the NHS for Andrew Lansley?