Should we be worried about right-wing populism?

That depends, niggly. In Fenland, there are large numbers of immigrants working on the land. There has been building in some of the small towns, which are experiencing some economic growth after years of decline. The East of England is one of the most supportive areas of Leave. I really wonder what will happen if the immigrants leave, because I can't honestly see non-immigrants flocking to the area to pick potatoes and cabbages.

That is true. Where I live it is very green and pleasant, but most migrants understandably want to live in towns and cities not in open countryside with at best limited facilities both socially and economically, therefore as I see it, it must lead to overcrowding and enormous strain on already overstretched services. It's a huge problem with no easy immediate answers. I certainly have none.

It's not an overcrowded isle Practical although some people live in cities where there is pressure on transport, housing etc. I invite you to take a flight from Luton airport across to Waterford. On his route, which heads across towards Gloucestershire and then across S Wales it is quite hard to spot even a small town. It's greenery all the way.
The woeful lack of housing in London is caused in part by UK nationals moving to London to work there. Also much needed EU and non-EU immigrants that the booming economy desperately needs. And it is also caused by woeful lack of appropriate housing policies and actions by governments and mayors.

DaphneH- the little valley near us is not called Little Siberia for nothing. It is sparcely inhabited- very poor land at altitude that cannot sustain any crops apart form grass for cows. The maximum (minimum) recorded temperature is minus 41.8 C. Not for the fainthearted!

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/17/mainstream-politicians-clueless-on-how-to-deal-with-migration-debate-says-jo-coxs-husband

Whitewave....Brexit is not about standing alone,it is about being independent from a downwardly spiralling EU.

There is a world beyond Europe,and many companies in the EU have lucrative,ongoing contracts with us.There will be a period of change without doubt,but it will not be fatal.

The reference to the Spanish Armada and Hitler is an interesting one.
Nato and our allied forces are not going to disappear with a Brexit win.
As for the proposed joint EU armed forces,many of our top military brass are in favour of Brexit .They believe that the EU is already thwarting our ability to perform efficiently,and that an EU force will be a disaster.

The following is general and not a response to Whitewave particularly.

The UK will not up anchor and float away into oblivion with a Brexit win.
I however,may drown in my own tears if we remain !!

A very interesting outcome of this referendum,is that it has revealed the enormous proportion of the UK electorate who are anti EU.
Those people will remain galvanised and demanding ,however the voting goes.

We do not know how the country will be if we vote Brexit,neither do we know how it will be if we remain in this limping EU.
My opinion is that it is brave to vote Brexit,and should we leave the EU,there will be a surge of spirit,hopefulness,and a dogged determination to make our country succeed.

As a free-lancer I am expecting a dip in income with Brexit.
Is it worth it ?.....YES.

Time to refrain from labelling Brexit voters as being right wing supporters and anti immigration.My partner was an EU immigrant.
Bar a few nasty specimens,they are very decent people who care about their country and dare to push for change.
We are all educated now with access to the press and internet,and are perfectly capable of formulating our own opinions based on a cross section of information.

I look forward to catching up on the forums next Friday !!

@ granjura

Exactly! Good luck to anybody who wants to live in Northern Russia, Antarctica or Saudi Arabia!

Interesting article by Dan Hodges in the Mail on Sunday, which (unlike its stable mate) has come out for Remain:

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3648708/DAN-HODGES-Brexit-opened-Pandora-s-box-destroy-Britain.html

Land area has little to do with the land area which is habitable. If your country is made up of mountains and lakes which cannot be lived in/on, with little land to grow crops- the area is not much good to you.

Map and population of area's might open some people eyes instead of presuming

world.bymap.org/LandArea.html

I do totally understand this- but education, NHS, and lack of housing is a man-made political choice- and not a fatality.

Parts of the UK are indeed over crowded, but overall not at all. I can drive from our flat in the East Midlands either East or North for hours and only encounter small villages- and this is even more so further North.

Many European countries, like mine and Holland, etc, are much more densely populated- and the great majority of people do not have their own home with a private garden. London is massively spread out due to private house ownership- which would be impossible for most elsewhere due to lack of space.

What worries me about immigration is the fact that we are a relatively small island with sixty million people or thereabouts living here, with enormous problems, housing, health education provision and so on. But over and above that what concerns me most is the fact that there are in the shadows of society, if it's to be believed, hundreds of 'baby Peters' being mistreated, tortured and killed by their Parents/carers, falling through the net of our beleaguered social workers, so how on earth can we successfully cope with an influx of unaccompanied vulnerable children from overseas without some falling into the hands of the very people we're trying to protect them from, particularly older children who will inevitably go out and about unaccompanied? Having worked in social care (the elderly) for many years I know only too well what a stressful job this can be. The cruelty inflicted on old people was at times just horrible, but a tiny/bigger child, in a foreign country that is unable to cope with home grown tradgedies is for me a great worry. I hope none of you perceive this as racist, as I assure you its not. If we were a big country with a bottomless purse it would be absolutely fine, but we're not and that's a serious issue. What do others think?

I am surprised though that someone would post a link to arn article they have not read?!

The lack of funding in the NHS has nothing to do with immigration of course- but the fact that the UK has always (I believe) chosen to spend a smaller % of GDP on health care than most other developed countries- and that this government has chosen to cut this even further, again and again. THAT is the problem- it is a clear political choice. Same for education, where the per head capita is also much smaller than most developed countries. Again a clear political choice and not a fatality. All that needs to happen is for politicians, and the 'people' to be prepared to pay for both adequately.

...I thought it was actually the weather that defeated the Spanish Armada; lets hope the weather is in a favour over the next few weeks/months/years but, alas, I fear a mighty storm is brewing...

Who has labelled him right wing bags? If you think it was me can you put a comma after "right wing" in your minds eye then read it again.

Whitewave.....I expect Nick Cohen will be voting to remain then.

I think one edge is blunted if one tries to give a précis that might encourage people to read.

It's a well written article. Cohen always writes well. How anyone who has read his writings can label him right-wing is beyond me. Perhaps because they disagree with him on something(s) he has to be labelled thus. As niggly was saying up thread. Hey ho.

Thanks bags I can't do blues. But I also think sometimes they are a double edged sword.

Will Hutton

"The millions of working-class voters thinking of voting Brexit beware. Immigrants who boost our economy are not the cause of our ills. The lack of cheap social housing, the underinvestment in public services, the non-building of roads, the inability of weakened trade unions to defend wages and the wider failure to develop vigorous local economies are not the EUs fault.
What is wron has is minted in Britain and must be put right here.

Moreover, the values that will make our lives better are mutuality and generosity - not telling others to go home and turning our backs on the noble if derided EU. To leave is it indulge the worst side of our natures, to believe fantasies about what constitutes democracy and to chase an economic chimera.

To remain is a double win - to be part of something good and get richer in the process

Think before you vote"

Here is a link to the article by Nick Cohen that ww referred to. I haven't read it yet. Am just about to do so.

Another myth of the nationalist right.

The Brexit campaign is fuelled by a mythology of England "standing proud and alone" just as we did against the Spanish Armada and Hitler. But this is overwhelmingly not the case. Britain has alwYs been part of a larger entity.
Anglo-French
Global Empire
EU.

We have been on our own for only about 300 years of the past 1200 years.
First was the 10th century under Athelstan
Second between 1453 and 1603 when we gave up France
Otherwise we have always been part of a larger entity and not just "little England"

We are much less used to our own devices than the nationalists would like you to think we are.

Brexit are quite clear about who the them are - Brussels. It's the "us" bit that they are a tad unclear on.

Thanks to Mr O'Toole

I posted a link to this article by Niall Ferguson on the Jo Cox thread. I'm reposting it here because of what he says in it about large movements of migrants and the effects they have. I do not get the impression he is arguing against human migrations, only that for them to work without causing too much social disruption to the receiving countries, they need to be controlled. Floods, both literal and metaphoric that affect human societies, are nearly always problematic. That view does not make him or me right-wing.

Why are you playing the man and labelling again, ww? It's that kind of thing that puts people off threads like this.

I'll check out the article.

What I have found most surprising about the referendum, is that uncontrolled immigration has managed to surpass the economy in what is most important for people.
I didnt think anything could surpass money.

Though I suppose uncontrolled immigration does indeed affect money in peoples pockets as well as a whole heap of other matters-housing schools hospitals etc.