Should we be worried about right-wing populism?

11.29.17 POGS ....great post.

We can do both, sarah.

So you really think the alternative to right-wing populism is ...
left wing nazism !?! (whatever that is?). I despair.

What does the Guardian advocate, left wing nazism.

All these politically informed opinions are all well and good - but innocent people are being killed in terrorist attacks - shouldn't there be protests about that - or is life that cheap?

This is a long article about Brexit, class and immigration. But worth the read.

www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n15/john-lanchester/brexit-blues

Not sure if this is the place to post- but I was truly touched and brought to tears by this young man's response:

www.facebook.com/TheProjectTV/videos/10153760912218441/

Durhamjen

Thank you for your apology.

I have in fact made it known I voted remain on GN, even as we were discussing the results coming in on the 24th June.

I remain of the opinion however that whichever way I/we chose to vote it is not up to 3rd parties to tell me/us we were either an idiot, a racist, intelligent, superior in kindness and that is the point I keep making.

There is a lack of respect on GN toward one another I find shocking and is at an all time high and I don't like it so I will happily continue to play devils advocate without worrying about how I am perceived by others , obviously mistakenly by many it would appear.

I apologise, POGS. I thought you voted leave. You are probably one of the very few who never gave her intention. Your posts do seem to give the impression you did, so I apologise for getting that wrong.

Obieone, have you not seen the accounts of those people who have been told to pack their bags and go home? That's getting rid of immigrants.

So who was mislead by the Brexit leaflets, those who thought that they were voting to get rid of immigrants, or those who thought that controlled immigration did not mean anything to do with immigration?

Durhamjen immigration was never on my agenda, however I do agree with the concept of controlled immigration to enable easier assimilation into society, like baking a cake, add the eggs slowly and you get a good mix, add too much too fast and it clumps and curdles.
UK has and always been welcoming to different nationalities, it is what has made us the liberal inclusive society we are. Consider the regressive and retrospective countries where immigration and especially inter marriage are not allowed I would imagine that there are not many if any (except specific religious groups) who would want these kinds of societies replicated here. I would imagine that all brexiteers who had immigration as an issue only request control. Don't forget that some of the cities with high levels immigrants who were able to vote actually voted exit.

"Getting rid of immigrants" is not the same as reducing future numbers, as you well know, dj.
[I give up thinking you do not know what you are writing and muddling up].
And for me, it was and is posts like that that say a great deal about the poster.

I have to say though, that several other posters on here have stopped writing like that since the referendum.

Durhamjen

I wish to inform you your arrogance is getting the better of you!

I DID NOT VOTE LEAVE IN THE REFERENDUM!!!!!

However unlike you and a good few others I refuse to attack those who did and I cannot abide the narcasism of those who believe their way of voting in the referendum to remain is superior in intelligence, more worthy and most of all refuse to accept others voted on their beliefs and principles as they saw fit.

Angry, yes, who the hell are you to tell me, or post a lie about my choice of vote!

You and Ana, POGS. Joelsnan's post wasn't on there when I posted that.
Did you not know that by voting leave, you would be voting to reduce immigration, POGS, because I do not believe you.
Every leaflet that came through my door said about immigration.
Every poster said about immigration.

Until today and the vote on EU migrants already living here, even Andy Burnham's wife wasn't sure she would be allowed to stay. Theresa May and James Brokenshire were still saying they would use EU migrants as pawns in their game with the EU.

DJ

Who are ' both ' please?

Also you say " When you voted to leave you knew you were voting to get rid of immigrants"

What proof do you have for making such a sweeping statement?

I suggest you are making some assumptions to fit your narrative and that applies to a good many others reading GN.

I do not understand your first paragraph, joelsnan. You will have to explain it to me.
Are you saying that immigration was nothing to do with Brexit?

You both missed out the bit about immigration.
When you voted to leave, you knew that you were voting to get rid of immigrants. You were not just voting to get however much back from the EU. You were not just voting on sovereignty, as we already had that.
You were voting on all the problems that are happening now. You didn't really expect the racists to suddenly go quiet, did you, after they had won?

Remainers knew they were voting on the whole package. We quite liked it as it was, even without Cameron's concessions.
It might change over the years, but it always has done.

Durhamjen you state that the Brexit campaign was build on the basis of immigration, you perceive this because it suits your current agenda and is used to validate your remain stance, which some who have read your previous postings regarding saving the downtrodden societal bottom rungers consider an interesting juxtaposition.
Most who voted exit have had this opinion for decades this is why a referendum was called. It did not start the day the referendum was called and all the lies and scaremongering (from both sides) started. Brexiteers are normal everyday people who have the courage to cast aside their self protectionism and strive for a better future for UK citizens from wherever they are derived.
This process is almost exactly like divorce from a bad marriage, there is initial pain, indeed agony and anger, loss of income initially, a feeling of loss and uncertainty, however in most instances, those who have instigated a divorce usually go on to say it was for the best and often it was the best thing they ever did, being emotionally and financially in a better place.

" You cannot say I voted to leave (remain also!) for one reason and not another"

Not sure I follow DJ.

You cannot say I voted to leave for one reason, but not for another. You knew what the overall result of Brexit would be.

Rubbish! Who could possibly know what the ultimate result of either a Brexit or a Remain vote would have been?

Someone who voted to leave is a Brexiter.
You cannot say I voted to leave for one reason, but not for another. You knew what the overall result of Brexit would be.

'I voted to leave but what's happening now isn't my fault' doesn't wash, I'm afraid. The Brexit campaign was built around immigration.
Corbyn is in the situation he is in because he said he was 75/25 to remain.

I'm sure some remain voters are ill educated and I think quite a few have legitimate grievances but not quite such a high proportion. I also doubt whether any racists voted to remain.

I believe that very many decent people voted leave because they believed the lies of the leave campaign. Aparently 16% of the outers, having understood how they were deceived, would, if they could vote again vote to remain,
whereas only 3% of remain voters might change their vote.

Varian

If the term Brexiters is used without the use of the words some , a few for example , then it is clearly intended to mean ALL Brexiters.

So if someone says "I hope you Brexiters are ashamed of yourselves". or " Brexiters are stupid and racist" then it is indeed derogatory language intended for the whole number of those who voted Brexit to conclude it means them, either individually or as a group.

True, varian, but I haven't heard anyone saying any Remain voters are ill-educated and have grievances, etc, whereas by the law of averages some must be.

thatbags when you criticise islamist terrorists you are clearly not criticising all muslims.

When some brexiters are criticised, that does not necessarily include you.

So it is quite reasonable, and not rude, for other posters to point out that some who voted to leave are racists, some are ill-educated, some have grievances against the government because of austerity so quite illogically voted out on the basis of "we need change" without knowing what it might lead to, and so on.

This is not being rude to you or any other leave voters on GN, just stating facts.

And thank you POGS for your post of sat 11.29pm