The EU - we are on the home straight folks!

Farmers in Wales are firmly IN. (I MEWN in Cymraeg).
I can't see the NI folk voting to go it alone though. Too many protestant voters wanting to be part of UK. This was the issue at the heart of the Troubles - a slightly larger population of unionist protestants ruling the roost and consequent resentment from the RCs.

There are fewer people working for the EU than most people think.

theconversation.com/how-many-people-work-for-the-eu-59702

This is an interesting article for those who want to vote out to preserve our democracy. We are not a democracy, we are an oligarchy.

theconversation.com/ancient-greeks-would-not-recognise-our-democracy-theyd-see-an-oligarchy-60277

www.globaljustice.org.uk/blog/2016/may/26/not-about-britain-vs-eu-people-vs-big-business

This is why we need to stay in the EU, and ensure that trade deals are more open.

"In or out of the EU, the British government will go on fighting for more power to its friends in the City. What we want is people power – and our first step on that road is to defeat the deeply undemocratic trade deals like CETA and TTIP.

The battle over CETA comes to a head in the last week in June – at a special EU Council which has been moved from the week of the referendum so as not to cause embarrassment to the British government. Cameron appears to be in a minority in his enthusiasm for pushing through this awful trade deal. Countries like Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, and Belgium all have serious problems with this deal, and especially with the democratic bypass which Cameron is arguing for. We can defeat it.

The British parliament is also fighting back. This week rebel Tory MPs have joined with Labour to try to amend the Queen’s Speech – with a motion which calls on the government to ensure that CETA’s sister agreement TTIP, excludes the National Health Service. For the first time in nearly 100 years, the government’s programme faced defeat by parliament. And TTIP was the issue chosen to do it.

The government had to accept the amendment, and a humiliation, to prevent defeat. This is a step forward. The next showdown will be the EU Council in late June. Will Cameron really maintain his position to bypass parliament in his eagerness to get the corporate power grab of CETA passed into law?

It seems incredible given everything that’s been said about sovereignty in the last few weeks. But for a long time the sovereignty the British government is committed to is not the sovereignty of the British people, but that of big business."

From the link.

Could NI have a referendum and join Ireland if it votes to stay in? Just like Scotland might have another one.

Just to add this will of course mean excise and various tax charges

There was a programme about it a few nights ago. There will be Customs and passport control. The border stations will be set up. In practical terms some towns will be split and residents will need to go through border controls.

Just watched an interesting video about the borders between Ireland and NI- the only land border we have with Europe. Farmers in NI with farms on the other side of border, saying they survive on 70% subsidies from Europe.

What would happen to that border if Brexit goes through? What would it mean in practical terms for those who live right on each side of border?

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/brexit-campaigners-reveal-their-third-concert-line-up-and-its-also-running-into-problems/

Anyone want to go to this concert?

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/brexiters-scream-conspiracy-at-google-for-ranking-bbc-and-guardian-higher-than-a-blog/

I should think so, too. Anyway, isn't the BBC on their side?

Just catching up with everything sort been out of the loop. So sorry if this is ancient.

Love the way Gove talked about the elite-talk about a laugh a minute. How was Eton then Michael? Full of those terrible elites? How did you bear it? Ordinary man Mike must have felt so out of his depth.

Very short on both facts and supporters I thought.

Are you on the right thread gonon?

My GS said we'er their to look after him and his sister, while his mum and dad are at work, his 5.

Just catching up -some good posts.

There was a discussion on TTIP on Radio 4 this morning about 6-30 I was very surprised to hear farmers from Devon saying they are all in favour of it as they would expect to sell lots of their 'premium cuts and mince' to USA and what a premium product grass raised meat is. The sticking point for them seems to be some ban or restrictions on lamb due to scrapie.
The Green lady of course was totally against it and someone else was saying about egg production where in U.S. they are still having chickens in cages which allows for much cheaper eggs - there was some worry that the UK would be flooded with cheap eggs from America. GM was also talked about with a couple of supporters of those crops saying that the EU should go for it.
I was surprised that there was any support for this deal but it was very much on a ' I should do well out of it' type of opinion and little looking at a bigger scale impact of any deal. Food in U.S. Is cheaper than Europe so I would have liked to have been told how they would be competitive. Others were wanting that any imports should be clearly marked to show that it was not reared the same as Europe.
There was no general consensus at all and like many discussions was ended when it was just getting really interesting. We certainly need to know a lot more about any sort of deal and how it would impact on all the areas it would cover.

Good video. Thanks.
We hear a lot (from Farage and his new best buddies Johnson and Gove) about "uncontrolled immigration". In my experience of living (and doing recruitment) in the S of England, EU people come here because there are job vacancies. Most employers (if truth be told) would prefer to recruit UK born applicants. (The exception being if the quality of local applicants is poor) I have advertised jobs in which there have been not one single UK born applicant.
EU migrants to UK are largely young, without families. If they don't work, or if the work dries up, they almost always go home. (It's not that attractive actually, struggling by on little or no money in a cold wet country where you don't have any family)
A few years ago when the Irish economy was booming (remember the Celtic Tiger?), Ireland was sucking in large numbers of EU migrants. If you walked down the street in an Irish town of any size, you'd hear young people speaking Polish etc. They were beginning to anticipate the election of their first Polish person winning a seat in an election (under PR system) Then the economy crashed and the EU visitors largely disappeared. On the graph you can see the steep drop between 2007 and 2010, by which time more people leaving the country than arriving.
www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2015/
This is not "uncontrolled immigration" because this mobile labour force is just that - mobile, and they respond to the needs of the economy - its like a thermostat that controls heating - vacancies up - more come to fill them - vacancies down, they go home and/tell their friends not to bother coming.

Gove has caused chaos in the English school system. He is now closing courts so that defendants and witnesses can have extremely long journeys when they are required to attend a magistrates court. (e.g. Holyhead to Caernarfon - no mean trek by public transport). Just a taste of things to come?

fullfact.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4e4c5a6a441f72299683193db&id=22ba06b90e&e=6d2d91aa2f

Sorry, that was just the image. This is the video.

An informative video about EU immigration from the Migration Observatory at Oxford University.

gallery.mailchimp.com/video_thumbnails/5eeb3fccd150c3cff7e5f6721540a521.png

An excellent article on Corbyn and the EU referendum.

www.thecanary.co/2016/06/03/corbyn-reveals-real-reason-hes-silent-brexit/

Some of us have been writing about TTIP on GN for over two years. It is only because groups like Greenpeace and FOE have been given what should be secret information that we know what we do about it.
Cameron wants it signed before the referendum.
The Green party in the EU has a strong presence, and along with Labour MEPs they are trying to prevent it.
All the leave group are in favour of TTIP.
If you are worried about TTIP, you should vote to stay in the EU.

With you, daphne, on Gove. The first thing he will do if leave win is to get rid of the Human Rights Act.

I don't trust Gove for one moment. What he said sounds pre-rehearsed and scripted and I don't believe he's being honest about his ambitions. He has already stated in public that he feels that EU laws and the ECHR stops him from doing what he wants. My reaction to that is 'good!. He said the same thing about educationalists, including Michael Wilshaw, when he was Education Secretary. He gets an idea into his head and won't listen to any criticism. He did an amazing amount of damage to education by sticking stubbornly to his ideas about free schools, academies and the curriculum and I really dread to think what he could get away with, if given a free rein with justice. The courts system in the England and Wales has already been seriously undermined.

Yes, Annie, he was very careful to be all things to all people - whatever you want we could do it providing you vote with us.

The problem with Gove is that he always starts things off and leaves them in a mess for someone else to clear up.

durhamjen....re TTIP.I didn,t mention the British government,though I feel they have been extremely sneaky in not mentioning it during their remain campaigning. The environment is just one issue which it covers of course. so I hope it is given the consideration it deserves.Other issues are delaying its introduction too,not least ISDS.

It seemed he had forgotten many things this evening.

So easy to say - we could vat , we could spend millions on the NHS etc. We could does not mean we will