A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

Very good descriptive word and fits perfectly, alea. And they (oh no! I've used 'they' again! Betting on deletion is hereby opened) wonder why about the thread title. Hey ho.

Intemperate to say the least!!

This is a really nasty thread.

"thatbags it always is prompt because they sit waiting to pounce. I had decided that people are going to vote what they have decided no matter what so I just did a post about wanting some sheets that were not made in china, hoping someone would say where they had seen some. All innocent but still got pounced on. My meaning was with uk laws and eu laws we still get rubbish."

You wanted people to start talking about sheets from China on a politics thread? I was just pointing you in the right direction for that.

durhamjen You said
We have threads for that, practical, in chat. If that's all you wanted. If you buy cheap you get cheap. Personally I prefer organic cotton sheets which are never made in China.

I don't buy cheap and don't need to brag about what sheets I do buy, I could buy and sell you so you buy what you want I wouldn't have them as a gift. As for chat there is no way I would enter chat there is more than enough insults on here.

GandTea,there is absolutely no need to apologise! You are a pessimist, I'm an optimist, both completely natural, and part and parcel of life. Think nothing of it and move on

Whatever your personal interpretation, it is NOT true that EU accounts have never been audited, which is what the headlines would have you believe.

The auditors have never fully approved the EU budget, whilst they are happy with the money received they have concerns about "significant errors" where EU spending didn't follow the rules and accordingly money "should not have been paid out". To me this means the budget has not really been passed. I would like to see an independent body check the books, not the European Court of Auditors. I believe one of the auditors who raised concerns was actually sacked!

Over the eek end I watched a few interviews about the EU - plenty on! and I think it was John Major who said that he had been on various committees of the EU and this business about unelected Beuricrats is totally wrong. These people are appointed by the various Govt and only serve for a maximum number of years -5 I think. They are ASKED by the EU parliament to look into various legislation which is considered to be needed and come up with a paper - this is not necessarily agreed by the Parliament. All legislation has to be passed by the MEPs which we have all voted for.
Whether you are voting in or out can we please get the facts right. It is far more democratic than UKIP would have us believe - or Boris and Mike. In many ways it is more democratic than our own Govt which seem to be able to slip things through with no one noticing - and they want to get rid of the House of Lords which has acted as a good filtering system over the years.

Roses, why do you never read and remember anything important?
We vote for MEPs, and the heads of government. We can get rid of them.
If we vote leave and Cameron resigns, he will no longer be in those pictures of all the heads of state alongside Merkel, etc., who ratify the laws.
I am sure you will not read it because it goes against what you believe, but here it is again.

fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-democracy/

However, the EU far surpasses other international organisations in its democratic control, just as it reaches into far more areas of public policy than its counterparts elsewhere:

EU citizens directly elect the members of the European Parliament, which is a ‘co-legislator’ in most areas of EU activity. In other words, its approval is generally needed for new EU laws. These elections also then shape the choice of European Commission President, who needs to have the approval of the Parliament;
Citizens can ask for specific new laws to be considered by the EU, through a European Citizens’ Initiative, although this has not resulted in any new laws to date;
Member countries have accepted that the EU creates a set of legal rights, not only for states, but also for EU citizens, which they can rely on in court (‘direct effect’) and which cannot be overridden by those states (‘supremacy’ or precedence).
From the article.

Latest EU polls Brixit leading.
The remains will be going into overdrive now, posts will be coming fast and furious

Wish it was a joke, roses.

By the way, Gove wants to leave both the EU and the single market.

This is waht will hapen if we leave the EU.

theconversation.com/what-is-article-50-the-law-that-governs-exiting-the-eu-and-how-does-it-work-60262

Djen made a joke!Whatever next.
The thing is, if the public don't want them next time, they can get rid of them at the GE.

fullfact.org/europe/did-auditors-sign-eu-budget/

Unfortunately we will not be free of a bloated and corrupt organisation. We will still have the Tory government.

Sunseeker, the auditors have signed the books off. You have obviously been reading the wrong papers.

or indeed, if we would wish to join now, if we were not already a member.

roses I agree, it is all speculation. No-one KNOWS what will happen whether we stay or leave. I would prefer UK to take its chances out in the real world than stay within the EU. Ask yourself this question, if you belonged to a local club which kept asking for more and more money in order for you to remain a member, but whose book-keeping was such a mess that auditors would not clear them, would you blindly continue to pay? If the committee moved to a new location every few weeks at great expense because one or two members didn't think it fair they should travel to the main club?

seems amazing to me, how many on here seem to know exactly how things will be if we leave (or don't leave) when even the so called experts don't know.Nobody should imagine it will be sunshine all the way if we leave, and no doubt will take a few years to untangle ourselves from the EU, but will be worth it to be free of a corrupt and bloated organisation that is heading for a fall anyway, if things go on as they are.

3 more weeks of this!

Grandtea sadly I have to agree with you.

Ceesnan, sorry if my pessimism annoys you, I would not wish you to be annoyed. But, I cannot share your optimism, I am of the opinion that between the US elections and the EU referendum, we are close to the two worst decisions in my lifetime.

I'll say no more.

I would tend not to believe Gove Mad maison if you saw the interview with Macron he does not think it will stay the same. I think health costs will drive many people back to UK - they are estimated to be about €3K per person annually - and I would hope the companies are still not allowed to take existing conditions into account.
I think the Brexit camp are totally hoodwinking people as they are desperate for power. They have no credible plan for an exit and are spending the money several times over - that is if they have any money because if they do a deal with the EU it is unlikely to be free and there will be no rebate! So we will be paying more to have less - not a good deal at all.

I didn't see this, granjura and I'm no fan of KH but I do know that she has recently undergone very serious brain surgery in an attempt to cure her epilepsy so maybe this is why
Oops GJ

If it is any consolation, I can't stand the woman either, especially her remarks about "ginger babies" which made me incandescent as I have 2 beautiful DGSs with red hair!
Were I being unkind, I might hope that the brain surgery was to implant a brain, but that would be unworthy