A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

I am English, born in Lndon. What really troubles me is that the tone of any debate quickly becomes heated and as though if you say anything good or bad about staying in or coming out of the eu, you are on opposite sides.
Derisory comments like what planet are you on do not help an open debate.

Anya, when the never had it so good speech was made in 1957 Harold Macmillan made it to the generation who had been through a war. They now had, pretty much, jobs for men where required, fridges, the NHS and basic benefits for bad times and that generation (who will be in their 90s or older now) had a bright view of the future; a future which, albeit with some ups and downs, has come to pass. The NHS is keeping us alive and fit well into our old age, our expectation of labour saving and money saving devices far outstrip just a fridge and benefit, when the Conservatives are not stripping them out are there for those in need. Unfortunately I do not see the same optimism in the generation that came after those who came through the war even though their lives are so much better.

My memory is far more of things going wrong as we became "the sick man of Europe" as those of our generation (assuming you are not in your 90s) were influencing the country. This was when the blessed Margaret tore the guts out of the industries which provided good incomes for so many. Joining the EU has given us the possibility to make progress back from the "just wait for the crumbs from the tables of bankers, they will come eventually" attitude. They not only didn't come but the few crumbs we had gleaned for ourselves had to got towards bailing them out. Luckily other EU countries actually understand we need to be able to sell something other than financial services.

I think we could go back to some of the worst side of the 50s if we come out, sadly. I will think of you when I scrap the frost off the inside of the window because I can no longer afford to switch the heat on and I am stuck in bed because there is no carer to help me.

As this has now descended to pure surmise and fantasy I think I'll go and do something useful instead.

What a load of balderdash Jess -

I suspect that some of the donors behind the Exit campaign would like to ditch all employees rights and ship in immigrants from outside the EU to work for them without protection and at much lower wages

Utter rubbish! I really cannot believe that twaddle but obviously you do

No - Germany's economy absolutely flew from about 1947 onwards. France was keen to ensure that Germany did not get too strong yet again, and as a result the Common Market was formed. Britain by contrast had totally wasted the money given to us from the post war settlement , and as a result rather than investing to grow as Germany had done we chose austerity. Our economy stagnated.

We watched what was happening in Europe and decided we needed to join.

Well said jevive. It was not a golden age. One other thing - women's rights in the workplace have improved beyond recognition since then and our kids and grandchildren will (if we stay in) be able to work anywhere in the EU under the cosy blanket of EU employment protection. I suspect that some of the donors behind the Exit campaign would like to ditch all employees rights and ship in immigrants from outside the EU to work for them without protection and at much lower wages. Open to suggestions as to why else very rich businessmen might be chipping in a few £100k.

If the EU does implode it will bring about a far greater ecomonic crisis that the mini one we might (or might not) experiences if we leave now.

I may not trust this government much to keep its promises or look after the NHS, but at least we can get shut every few years and replace them with an equally incompetent but well meaning alternative such as the Blessed Jez (who to be fair is growing on me as I witness his uncomfortable, reluctant transformation into a Europhile )

But that's history.......

In the 1960s, economic growth translated into rising living standards, with households able to purchase a greater range of 'white goods' and cars. There were new markets emerging, for example, teenagers had greater disposable income to spend on pop music, like the Beatles.

There was also a revolution in transport. At the start of the 1960s a majority of households did not have a private car, but relied on public transport. By the end of the 1960s, car ownership rates had risen from approx. 40% to 60% (RAC - car ownership rates) The first motorway was built in 1958, and throughout the 1960s there was a major road building programme - just as the railway network was severely cut back.

Compared to current prices, housing was also still cheap. Helped by a boom in post-war house building, owning a home was an affordable aspiration for both the middle class and working class. (Average house prices in 1969, £4,328). During the 1960s, home ownership rates increased substantially.

* Anya* I think before then. Too many cracks showing.

Anya I have sent you a PM.

My personal opinion is that the EU will implode within the next 10 years anyway.

But this is now and that was in the 70s and as I said there is a very different scenario in front of us now.

That is the case petra

jevive is not correct inasmuch as you've put your finger on the reason yourself....De Gaulle was not an anglophile and he indeed thought we were too much in America's pocket.

Our economic model may have started to look outdated by the mid 70s but the late 50s and 60s were certainly a time of innovation and growth.

Whitewave I think that it was a lot more personnel with DeGaulle. More to do with WW2.

Indeed if we were applying over-used titles and terms to any country at the moment it would be France (not withstanding that it is La France and therefore clearly not male) and she is in the EU

anya No that is wrong. McMillan may have said that but it wasn't true. The Common market countries were absolutely booming, and in contrast Britain was barely bumping along the bottom, which is why McMillan was so keen to join. However he was turned down by DeGaulle who thought we were to much in the Americans pockets.
jevive is correct.

Just repeating something doesn't make it true jevive - we were not 'desperate' to join the Common Market, we wanted to in order bring down the cost exports and imports as part of a free trade zone.

If that was all we were voting for this month then I'd be an unequivocal 'YES'....but we're not.

Jevive73 Can I ask if you are French born?

Anya Well said. I know I shouldn't laugh at the Donald Campbell quip, but is was funny.

And exactly how do we do that?

In the 70s we were called sick man of europe and we were desperate to join the common market. The eu does need reforming but we all need to become more involved in what goes on there.

Are we talking about the same country jevive? Post-war Britain of the 50s & 60s 'never had it so good' to quote the PM of the time and many agreed with him.

A job was a job for life for many.

Britain in the 60s was 'swinging' and we led the world in pop music with the Beetles, the Rolling Stonss and Dave Clark 5 others. We were famed for fashion with Mary Quant and models like The Shrimp and Twiggy. We had great scandals such as the Profumo Affair and Donald Campbell was smashing world records and himself in the process.

We even won the World Cup.....

What planet were you on????