A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

One reason to vote leave
If all past PM's thought it was a great club to join
why didn't they let the public know what they were signing up to?
why did all of them sneak off to sign and didn't let the public know till the deed was done?

It's so good to get such a good laugh on here. Your post Varian is sooooo funny. We've needed some humour on here to counteract some of the seriously nasty posts.
Up the OUTERS and the rights of common man.

www.channel4.com/programmes/the-last-leg/on-demand/64580-001

Jeremy Corbyn on The Last Leg last night.

Varian that is brilliant. I know a little forum I would like to put it on but sadly they would just agree that most of them are OK[sad smile]

“Quite frankly, it’s time to take back control of the operating theatre, and start performing our own keyhole surgery.”

That's a good summary of Micheal Gove's opinion of "experts" - what do they know?

Brilliant Varian. Have a look at the Michael Gove Guide to Experts link on the home strait thread.

35 Reasons to Vote #Leave

Some people think it’s completely irrational to want to leave the EU. So, to avoid looking like you’re ignorant or incapable of understanding the issues, here’s a handy list of 35 excuses you can give for your position.You don’t have to believe them all, just use whichever you feel comfortable with.

1.Contrary to the expert conclusions of every economic authority of note (OECD, World Bank, Bank of England, IFS, etc, etc, etc), Brexit will not be damaging to the British economy.
2.Experts don’t always get it right. In fact, because I can think of one example of an expert getting something wrong, I’m going to assume they’re all wrong on the economic consequences of leaving the EU.
3.I think English literature graduate Michael Gove has a better insight into global economics than the above experts and, in fact, Brexit will magically solve any and all problems in the British economy.
4.I believe that there aren’t enough jobs to go round for EU immigrants, despite the fact that more workers create a larger economy, creating more jobs as well as a higher tax take.
5.I believe foreign workers who fill jobs where there are skills shortages like nursing, construction and, erm, premiership football are adding nothing to society.
6.I believe leaving the EU will remove any moral obligation from the UK to support and welcome desperate people fleeing war and peril in the most troubled areas of the world as this country did before and during WWII.
7.I believe leaving the EU will make refugees who have already risked everything to get here decide not to bother after all.
8.I believe China (market size 1.2Bn) will offer just as good trading terms or better to the UK (market size 57Mn) as it does to the EU (market size 500Mn).
9.I believe the angle of curve of my bananas is something that the EU genuinely legislates on and that this is sufficiently important to me that I am willing to suffer economic hardship in order to protect the right to have access to the bent/straight bananas that I prefer.
10.I believe the Social Chapter is an affront to my right to oppress others and of those who would seek to oppress me.
11.I believe this country would wake up the day after leaving the EU and would suddenly find itself bathed in a glorious light of sovereignty, whatever that means. I don’t believe that in practice sovereignty is actually a pretty vague idea that actually can only be negotiated in relation to the wider world as part of international community and that no country gets to do exactly what it likes. Except perhaps North Korea. Yeah. I want to live in North Korea. They got sovereignty.
12.I believe that, contrary to intelligence experts, the UK would be safer from terrorists without pooling intelligence with other European countries, even though most of the 7/7 bombers were born and raised in, erm, the UK.
13.I believe we could pool intelligence with other European countries from outside the EU and they would be just as happy to share with us as they are now, but somehow, even though I believe the situation would be the same, that’s still a reason to leave the EU.
14.I believe I am better represented by the first-past-the-post elected parliamentarians in Westminster than the proportionally representative elected parliamentarians in Brussels and it’s got to be one or the other, rather than both.
15.I believe the supremacy of European Court of Human Rights (even though it isn’t actually an EU body) diminishes sovereignty in the UK and therefore somehow is less just even though, erm, I can’t think of any occasions when it has overruled British legislation except, oh yes, that thing about prisoners getting the vote, but, well, I suppose actually that might be quite just anyway, but still...
16.I believe the EU is all a Franco-German conspiracy and the best way of defeating it is to, erm, allow the Germans and French to get on with it.
17.I believe the EU is run by a bunch of faceless pen-pushing bureaucrats, completely unlike our own fine British civil service which has just exactly as much red tape as is necessary to ensure accountability and to counter corruption, and not a scrap more.
18.I don’t actually know whether Brussels government is any worse than UK government, but no one’s asking me about leaving the UK, but they have given me a chance to whinge that not everything is perfect in the world, so I’m taking it.
19.I don’t find Leave’s figure of £350Mn in payments to the EU a week remotely ridiculous, even though it takes no account of either the rebate or payments to the UK.
20.I believe that instead of spending £350Mn a week to the EU, if we left, we really would be able to spend it on the NHS ‘cause that’s really how economics does work. No, it is.
21.I believe Britain’s exit from the EU will bring the whole edifice tumbling down and I don’t like anyone else forming an international collaboration if we’re not part of it, even though, erm, I don’t want to be part of it.
22.I believe holidaying in Europe will be just as easy and no more expensive because they should be happy to have our fine British pounds, even though after Brexit they might be worth a lot less.
23.I believe that the imports from Europe that of course I will still be able to buy just as easily and just as cheaply will be just as safe and my consumer rights will be protected just as well, even though these are safeguards that are protected by EU legislation.
24.I’d like to be able to rip off music and videos, like they do in China and Russia, because they don’t have those pesky EU intellectual property controls which stop me stealing from artists whose work I like.
25.I believe people traffickers who operate outside the law anyway will be just as easy to track without transnational agreements and information sharing.
26.I believe an isolated UK will have more influence on a global stage because, well, we used to have an Empire you know. Just like, erm, Egypt, Mongolia and the Aztecs.
27.I’m a Scottish nationalist who wants to stay in Europe, but I hate those Sassenach Tories and this is probably my best way to get another chance to break up the United Kingdom.
28.I’m an Irish republican who wants Northern Ireland to be reunited with Eire and, erm, I’m not quite sure how that’s going to happen by leaving the EU, but if that Scottish guy thinks it’ll stuff the English, then I’m for it too.
29.I don’t mind my taxes supporting scroungers hundreds of miles away and with whom I have no connection so long as they’re this side of any sea, but I don’t want them supporting no foreign scroungers whose need might be even greater. After all, I do my bit by giving a fiver to Pudsy most years.
30.I just want to shove it to Cameron and Osborne.
31.Michael Gove is my anti-Establishment icon.
32.I don’t really want to leave the EU, but I want Boris as our next prime minister because he’s got silly hair and says wacky things - a bit like that awfully funny chap they’ve got in the US at the moment, who’s also ever-so keen on Brexit.
33.I liked it back in the olden days when frogs were frogs and Krauts were krauts.
34.I believe whatever the Daily Mail and Daily Express tell me to.
35.I genuinely feel no cultural connection to Abba, Archimedes, Aristotle, Bach, Beethoven, Brie, Cervantes, Chanel, Cicero, Croissant, Da Vinci, Einstein, Euclid, Goethe, the Grimms, Homer, Ibsen, Joyce, Leibniz, Michelangelo, Mozart, Pasta, Plato, Pythagoras, Rousseau, Schiller, Socrates, Tapas, Truffaut, Virgil, Zola or whatever, but on the other hand, I’ve got Morris dancing, Robert Burns, bara lafwr and the Orangemen in my veins.”
On the other hand, if every one of these reasons seems utterly, Trump-lovingly deluded, stop being a bloody idiot and vote #remain.

Follow Johnny Rich on Twitter: www.twitter.com/human_script

to assist with the prevention of wars within Europe and not specific to Russia as at the time they had been regarded as allies and of course at the beginning of the 20thC the Tzars were related to other European royalty.
It didn't prevent WW1 as Kaiser Wilhelm II, Tsar Nicholas II and King George V were first cousins.
World War One proved once and for all that the family ties between the reigning houses of Europe were more or less irrelevant.

I do not think that Russia is a threat to only its adjacent neighbours although neither do I think they are the only ones who could start a war. For centuries European countries have been at war with each other - reasonably recent history will tell you that. The original idea of a trade alliance was to assist with the prevention of wars within Europe and not specific to Russia as at the time they had been regarded as allies and of course at the beginning of the 20thC the Tzars were related to other European royalty.

agree with above post from wo2382 we can't be worrying about what Russia will do at any point in time.
If we do leave, which is looking more likely now, I think the other countries will want a referendum for sure.This could do two things, either break up the EU completely and we all go back to trading with each other and keeping up other European alliances,or, the EU will drastically slim down and perhaps work better.

Welshwife I feel so sorry for you if you worry about war between our neighbours and Russia ,If the heads of a country want to go to war they will start a war. If the people of any country rise up against their leaders a war will start .It will make no difference to us if we are in or out of an elite club. .I was born to a French mother and English father ,a Scottish grandfather and Flemish grandmother I have been European since birth 69 years I do not need some over fed nuvo rich member of a foreign parliament to tell me I have to pay to be , what is my right. Belive me the ordinary man in the street in France ,Germany, Holland Spain and Portugal feel the same way.The best way for them to keep the masses in line is to take away their individuality Remind you of someone.

I don't think it is cynical at all - they are geographically a buffer zone - by being in the EU it has given them great protection - why they were so interested in joining - by assisting them now we will make them stronger and more independent nations. By all staying together we are a harder nut for Putin to crack than to be able to pick off individually.
The UK will still have the veto with regards to the political union and it has been agreed it can have an opt out.
When you look at it the UK has a lot of opt outs that none if the other countries have or were able to negotiate.

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/six-questions-for-the-vote-leave-campaign-on-their-misleading-register-to-vote-page/

Has anyone else seen this?

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/vote-leave-quietly-delete-its-fake-register-to-vote-page-after-being-exposed/

fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/

Facts about terrorism and the EU.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/your-practice/practice-topics/education/nhs-looks-to-poland-spain-and-romania-to-find-new-gps/20032020.article

Does this article make anyone want to change their minds?

John Hayes has accused the EU of being unsuitable to deal with the threat of terrorism.

David Cameron's security minister said the bloc’s ability to fight extremism was compromised by the "grand scheming" of bureaucrats, whereas the best way of fighting terror was to leave it to "people doing the job in hand".
But his intervention in the Brexit debate just 13 days before polling day has threatened to undermine one of David Cameron and Theresa May's central arguments for remaining in the EU.

Oh! I did say abandoned as it seemed to be at the time, but it is still hovering I think.

I don't think the idea has been abandoned djen, it is on the backburner, ready to be reinstated at any time or in a different guise!

Your answer made me smile, harri . I'm also 100% sure which way I'll vote, but I'm not 100% sure it's the right decision. I suppose I've kept wishing that what I read about the way I'm not going to vote would be convincing or more 'appealing' to the gut instinct, for want of a better description, that's making me lean one way rather than the other. Maybe I'm a classic example of the British perversity that welshwife mentioned, a trait which my father used to call contrasuggestibility.

I would say, Yes, dad, I know you think I'm contrasuggestible, and you know I know you think I'm contrasuggestible, and I know you know I know... etc. In short, it got us nowhere

Thank you, HQ, for reinstating my post.

Isn't that what this government is doing, Jalima?
We can only have the money if we elect a regional mayor?
Northern Powerhouse, etc?

Was it on QT that a member of the audience questioned one of the panel about his stance on the Scottish referendum (stay in, we are better together) but he is now a Brexiter?
She put him on the spot - however, if I remember correctly, one of the aims of the EU was surely to go down the political route, splitting the UK and other countries into regions. Wales, Scotland and NI already devolved, then England would be divided into regions (regional Assemblies, an idea introduced by New Labour and abandoned soon after).
My memory is a little hazy though.