A thread for those who are voting OUT of the EU to make it fair

and also I see Putin as a huge threat to Europe as a whole. The 'cold war' has never really gone away - just been pushed to the background. The peoples of Eastern Europe are in the greatest danger - they are a good buffer zone to Western Europe

yes, I do see the ulterior motives of the EU wanting Eastern European countries to join but Ukraine is an example of what can go wrong when moves are made in that direction.
And to see the Eastern Europeans as a buffer between Western Europe and Russia would seem to be - well, words are failing me - cynical? selfish? just horrifying.
That stance would also seem to go more down the political union route than we are at present. The United States of Europe is not a prospect I would vote for.

If that is the case, then I would have to vote out.
If we are aiming for looser links of trade, travel etc then I would be inclined to vote in.

Wonderful Elegran!

I have already posted my vote back. !

Excellent post, Welshwife.

100% certain which way I will vote.

I think all we can do is make as much of an informed decision as possible on the facts we do actually know and things we have an idea might happen. The fact of no wars between the EU countries is still a big thing for me - and also I see Putin as a huge threat to Europe as a whole. The 'cold war' has never really gone away - just been pushed to the background. The peoples of Eastern Europe are in the greatest danger - they are a good buffer zone to Western Europe. Should the EU disintegrate because the UK pulls out - which is quite likely - then it will be easy pickings for Russia. I am not just trying to scaremonger here - it is what I sincerely believe.
In many ways I think this is too big an issue for the general population to vote on. There are things going on which we are not privy to and could well be pertinent to this issue. Only a small percentage of the population would be likely to read everything about this question even if it were put in the public domain- and many of us would not understand all the implications either.
Farage has done the UK no service at all with his hate of migrants - of which he is a product going back a few decades - something he cannot readily admit to - his wife also is a migrant - this fact was put to him last Thursday on QT and he ignored it whereas people such as the Milliband brothers are very open about their background. He is a deceitful person.
If the other member states of the EU did not say what they felt about a UK exit and then came out with this hard line after an out win what would everyone say ? ---- well you could have warned us.
It is a pity the British psyche is such that we are just perverse and put two fingers up to what we don't like or see as a threat.

I was about 50/50 bags and it took a lot of thought before I voted (by post) As for all the surveys and insistent posts asking to know how - MYOB comes to mind.

I was not swayed by the avalanche of 100% opinions on here, which always has the negative effect of pushing me toward voting AGAINST anything that the protagonists are promoting, or by all the hectoring and backbiting. I found information, thought about all the aspects involved and made my own decision.

^"a very good discussion on local radio . . . . .There was no name calling or shouting, just civilised discussion."

Wow!!!!! Could GNHQ ask the organisers on here for a blog explaining how they achieved that? When that is done, arrange a training session for media personnel, and send an "adviser" to Westminster.

You have given them proof that you have not openly and frequently said how you vote - that should be interesting roses

thatbags about 90 per cent for me, but certainly enough to think it is the right thing.

Same here. Gracesgran. That's how we know that people objected to our posts. They also asked for proof that what we said was true, and I have given it to them.

thatbags. - definitely not 100 percent sure. Wish I could be. More like 60/40 but my vote will be for what at the moment I see the lesser of two evils. But of course I can't know for sure what is right.

thatbags like you I do have doubts - I tend to sway in or out on a daily basis. I would love to feel as positive as some posters here do. At the moment I plan to vote out. The campaigns by both camps has been really bad, scare tactics and lies (on BOTH sides). There was a very good discussion on local radio between someone voting in and someone voting out but also in the studio was someone who had studied the EU and was able to verify or not the comments made by each person. There was no name calling or shouting, just civilised discussion.

I had an email from GNHQ Jalima telling me that they had received emails. The reason they gave for the objections was simply not true.

I have always been sure from the day we were sold into it by heath I've wanted out

Just before I posted that I knew there was something else I wanted to ask...

I'd be interested to know how many, if any, gransnetters feel 100% sure, or have no doubts whatsoever about their voting preference whichever way that falls. Only because I'm so rarely 100% sure about anything political. So just curious. Anyone willing to answer?

Arise Sir Remain-backer! Fury as Cameron accused of handing gongs to pro EU candidates
DAVID Cameron and George Osborne were accused tonight of abusing their power by rewarding pro-European Union backers with honours.

and so the house of lords grows and grows and still makes no difference to the voting

Re my earlier post, jess, I honestly do think both actual campaigns have been bad in many ways but I think that this is frequently the case with political campaigns of any kind: they look for snappy phrases and sound bites that don't have much going for them other than the snappiness and bitiness.

I also think that many people are not much influenced by the campaigning in the end. You and I, for instance, probably had a good idea which way we'd vote as soon as the referendum was mentioned.

Just a point about the 'red herring' re ageism above, any bitchin' was meant to be light-hearted. With age comes experience and I would add that I am often reminded of my age when politicians have names similar to the younger generation in my family and their friends.
As for deleted posts, I understand why GN delete some but I usually miss seeing them and consequently the flow of the thread is interrupted and confusing. Gracesgran I don't think they are necessarily reported by another poster, GN do police the threads themselves.

still undecided
Interesting post Billie

I know POGS - it's really boring isn't it.

Sigh

Indeed thatbags and you are now joining in the nagging.

naggety nag nag...

Who do you thing you are to tell me to stop it roses? You are not taking your own advice - why should I? I did not lie you did not tell the truth.

thatbags I think that jess meant the other way round? Possibly.

Just STOP GG ! Enough already.