The one indisputable FACT in this referendum debate

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/681019/european-union-Conflict-minerals-SCIAF-congo-colombia-war-EU-scotland-Nicola-Sturgeon

Flipping from first thread to last means I have lost the plot (not unusual) ...listening to BBC R4 yesterday morning was the story about the women refugees in the camps. They have run out of supplies of sanitary towels and have no transport to take them to the nearest supermarkets to buy any. My point? I don't have one, other than to say I switched channels.

Yes

Yes. Out respect to Jo and Family

Both campaigns have been temporarily suspended on the news that MP Jo cox has died after an attack while making a public appearance at a library.

Would it be a good idea for the EU threads on GN to hold a ceasefire too?

I was replying to previous posts and hadn't seen that one whitewave

No one jing that isn't the point it is out of respect. You don't need your actions to be witnessed to mean anything.

Your post didnt make sense. Didnt know what you were talking about.
Off gransnet to do something else.

. Who's gonna know? Who is it likely to help?

I hadn't seen the post, whitewave, so sorry I responded. I agree. This is really shocking.

Lazigirl. 15.06

I was being factual actually.

The word Mutti when used in connection with Angela Merkel is used not in a disparaging manner, quite the opposite.

It is said of Frau Merkel 'She has cultivated the image of a prudent, pragmatic , down to earth Leader earning her the nickname Mutti Mother of the Nation'

Chancellor Merkel I thought was widely known to have the nickname Mutti , obviously I am wrong.

I won't be posting whitewave

I'm shocked and saddened.

So that's a no then to my post 15.35?

@obieone

The EU isn't just about the 'élite'. The left-wingers who see politics as only about class struggle DO indeed object to the EU. However, there is so much more to the EU than that and most left-wingers (or those with left of centre views) don't all see the EU through Communist specs.

From my perspective, the Remain campaign has been a shambles. It hasn't helped that the focus has been on in fighting within the Conservative party and the Labour Party has been, at best, half hearted. LibDems, the most pro-European political party of them all, have become a toxic brand, which is a shame, because I still believe there are some very good grassroots LibDems.

The UK does only import 10% of the exports of the whole of the EU so maybe not a huge percentage of the output for the companies.

Well said Jalima

The German business people will still want to sell us masses of cars, they would be outraged if Brussels told them they couldn't.These threats are just threats.

"The Europeans are explicit that if we go the rest of the EU will close ranks against us. The survival of the union is more important then selling BMWs to us........They have to make clear to all other Nationalist parties in other countries in the EU like Le Penn etc.that there will be harsh consequences if a country leaves. There is no chance of any preferential treatment"

Well:

The Europeans - by that is meant the powers-that-be in Europe, ie the Commissioners etc?
Not all Europeans as some want a referendum themselves.

They have to make clear to people who do not agree with their ideals and aims that there will be harsh consequences
What harsh consequences - are the Commissioners going to round up everyone who disagrees with them, perhaps put them in camps?

Sounding a bit desperate to me, and guaranteed to harden the resolve of many people across Europe that the EU is not the democratic co-operative we all are told it is.

I am pro-EU, but I think it is danger of imploding unless the EU elite start listening.

practical you don't need to post all your comments on two or more threads - that won't persuade anyone I'm afraid
you can if you like practical, some posts are repeated several times on the same thread (probably a blip!)
It's not against the rules as far as I know

Croatia, which is the latest country to have joined the EU, has one of the weakest economies in the 28-country bloc.
The eastern European country, which joined the EU in July 2013, has struggled to pull itself out of a seemingly endless recession.

practical

Before the global financial crisis of 2008-09, the Croatian economy grew at a healthy 4-5% annually, incomes doubled, and economic and social opportunities dramatically improved. The prolonged crisis put this progress, as well as Croatia’s aspirations, to the test, as the country struggled with six years of recession.

Return to growth of close to 1 percent is expected in 2015. The highest contribution to this growth comes from exports of goods and services. Declining oil and food prices and the personal income tax cut helped with the recovery of domestic demand, especially of personal consumption. Investment marked an annual increase for the first time after twelve quarters, driven by rising payments for projects financed from EU funds.

Don't forget that Croatia was also recovering from years of devastating war; I hope that them joining the EU will help to preserve peace in that region.
Although, of course, the downside is that these 'wonderful' projects (new roads driven through the mountains etc etc) funded by the EU have to be paid for.

It is not only Juncker! A bit of rumbling all round I think.

There is far too much prejudice on both sides about which people are for in and which are for out.
There is, isn't there jevive
A lack of respect for other people and their opinions even if you disagree with them.

I wonder if we ought to follow suit and suspend debate for today? I only ask as there is a rumour that her injuries are referendum related?

Oh yes, Juncker for one said he believes things need 'reforming' - but only since the UK's referendum campaigns were underway. Weasel words, perhaps.

The EU has listened - which is why they did agree a few points with Cameron - also they have since said that things do need reforming so why wouldn't they listen now?