Labour MP Jo Cox shot in Birstall

granny UKIP uses exactly the same tactics as other far right political movements, they just do so in a more "respectable" way. They have been doing so for at least 5 years. Their message is insidious and appeals to many who worry about what they experience day to day from the result of poor management by our government of housing medical and educational services.

Not every area of the U.K. Is experiencing these problems - I live in one such area.

Undoubtedly immigration has been badly managed, it needs to be prioitised by our political parties.

But the way to deal with it it not to turn to these far right groups.

Yes, Bags, sorry, you are correct.
It has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred.
I presume that means that Farage has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred.
I wonder who will take responsibility for it.

Granny2016, I assume you don't live in South Wales, or yourUKIP friends , the campaigning in this area is pure racism , I am sorry but I don't understand how anyone can despise intolerance but support UKIP , they are bedfellows

The Farage poster is @36x55cm; there is a UKIP logo in the corner @ 1cm in diameter. It may be a UKIP poster but it is very misleading and you would have to look quite hard to realise that it isn't Brexit.

Granny2016 do you think that the Breaking Point advert out out by UKIP party leaders is a demonstration of despising intolerance? Because a lot of people think it is an unscrupulous attempt to conflate the issue of EU freedom of movement with the refugee crisis (all the people in the photo appear to be middle eastern refugees) and so fuel fears about immigration in order to boost the Leave vote. If people support a party that does something like that, there is a danger that they will get tarred with the same brush as the decision makers they admire.
I'm just back from our event to remember Jo, which went well. We were discussing with our MP afterwards the fact that if this attack had been carried out by one of her Muslim constituents there would have been headlines in certain papers mentioning "terrorism" and emphasising that person's religion. But I'm not aware of any headlines saying things like "white facist accused..." or "white Christian terrorist". The press IMO behave irresponsibly, fanning fears of immigration in a most unpleasant and biased way.

The night before this dreadful event, I was talking to my son about how we should listen to all points of view and argue if we disagree with all or some parts of that point of view. One poster on GN uses the word disgusting 4 times in her post about tolerance. If we reject the views of others as disgusting, those views don't get discussed and then foment fuelled only by other like minded individuals' views. I will give an example. I had a group of 16-17 year old students and we were discussing films . When someone started talking about Brokeback Mountain a Turkish lad started mouthing off about how disgusting gay men were. Two of the more articulate students stood up and said they wanted to leave the room rather than share space with such a homophobic boy. I said that all views could be aired and we talked about it. The boy was getting some very homophobic views from his dad. By talking about it we managed to redress what otherwise was a very one sided world view. We did not leave the boy feeling like some disgusting moron as that would have reinforced rather than weakened his views. Incidentally I read the Daily Mail Saturday ( best tv guide and the agony column is good) and the Guardian online intermittently. I am voting in.

I first put this on as a separate thread in an attempt to make all posters aware of the dangers. That doesn't seem to have worked so I am repeating it here on a site much engaged with this topic.
I want to make posters aware of two tweets I have just seen warning about this risk of discussing the Jo Cox murder. Yvette Cooper has retweeted tweets from David Banks and Paul Waugh highlighting the dangers. The David Banks tweet explains what contempt of court can mean. Posters on all sites are being asked not to jeopardise a fair trial by crossing a line.
David Banks Media Law explains in sufficient detail what constitutes Contempt in this case.
This is an issue close to the hearts of many posters and we all want to see a fair trial - a cornerstone of our British system and one that has appeared as a key argument in both camps. Both parties have a right to a fair trial so please read the advice.
Please note I am not attempting to stifle debate on this dreadful event but would hate posters on here who feel passionately about it to be the ones to cause the whole process to be aborted.

The problem for me is that Farage seems to be the highest profile Brexit supporter so I can only assume that people who are voting Brexit agree with him and what he stands for. I know this isn't necessarily true [at least I hope it isn't] but I can't NOT think that. Especially as his jovial exterior [imo] hides something much more sinister. I am prepared to listen to the case for Brexit, it's just that it seems to be based mainly on immigration. This is the single most important thing that any of us will ever have to vote for and it's vitally important that we think it through very carefully and vote for the right reasons, and because of that we have to listen to both sides of the argument.

DJ, I think the claim that the poster with Farage on it is a Brexit poster rather than a UKIP poster is incorrect.

Sorry Granny2016. Got it wrong again.

dd If you don't believe in unregulated free speech - who do you suggests regulates it?

Jo Cox's lasting legacy will be her children and it's her widower's stated intention to bring them up not to hate. I believe he will succeed and that they will not hate, but I have no doubt that they will be politically aware and will continue on the path their mother (and father) set out for them - to be internationalists, to support community, to champion the underdog, to speak out for the voiceless. I applaud his intent and the honour he shows his late wife in committing to this.

The smallest of lights can banish darkness.

Jinglebellsfrock....My post re timing was not aimed at you,and I agree that Jo Cox has been robbed of a very bright future in a leading role.
Anniebach and Daphnedill.
Far right groups like the BNP and Britain First are not tolerated.They are more verbal and receive more media coverage than previously,but the vast majority are horrified that they gained parliamentary seats....Something they were only able to do in an area of the UK which has very high levels of immigration,lack of work and deprivation.

I am not a UKIP voter,but am increasingly tired of UKIP being bunched together with the likes of BNP.
I have friends,clients and associates who support UKIP.They are thoroughly good,honest and hard working people who despise intolerance and view UKIP as the only path away from our failing mainstream parties.
By bunching UKIP with far right thugs,you insult thousands of very decent people.
Most UKIP voters will have been shocked and saddened by the murder of Jo Cox.

Do people who think all supporters of Brexit think the same way also think that all Remainers think the same way? Or is there a breadth of opinion on both sides, with shades and nuances, as in most political issues?

These are rhetorical questions really because it's obvious if you've been following debates and polls that some people are 100% supportive of one side and some are only just fifty-something percent supportive of a side. And don't forget those who are having difficulty deciding which way to vote.

Tarring everyone with the same brush as you tar Nigel Farage and members of the BNP is extreme and therefore just as bad, at the other end of the spectrum, as any other extreme view. Political issues still aren't a simple black and white.

politicalscrapbook.net/2016/06/james-obriens-rant-on-the-murder-of-jo-cox-perfectly-captures-the-state-of-debate-in-britain-today/

@sunseeker

I would hope that there is nobody with homicidal tendencies on GN and that we are rational enough to dismiss extremism. However, there are people in the community who are not that rational. I do not believe in unregulated free speech.

I have put a link on the other thread to hopenothate, showing photos of Farage shaking hands with EDL leaders.
Anyone who thinks that EDL are not tolerated in this country should think again.
Anyone who thinks that Farage is worth voting with should look at his contacts.
Anyone who thinks Farage is okay should look at the poster he was standing in front of.
That poster is a Brexit poster; it's not just a Farage poster.
That's breeding hatred.

@Luckygirl

I agree that the situation regarding racism has improved, but it's not an inevitable continuum. Attitudes to tolerance can go backwards and I believe they are.

Whilst there are those whose views are abhorrent to most of us we do live in a country where free speech is allowed. Some views should not and are not allowed to be expressed, advocating hate crimes, inciting violence etc., but on the whole I believe that the freedom to express our views is one of the bedrocks of our freedom. If we start to ban some people's free speech where do we stop? Who decides what we should be allowed to say? There are some on GN whose views I disagree with and others who disagree with mine - does that mean that either of us should be banned from expressing those views? Having said that, with the freedom to speak our minds also comes a responsibility to accept that others will disagree with us.

Luckygirl, my grandchildren are canvassing for Remain In, they fear a world which is returning to the forties, fifties and sixties. Yes black people are now accepted as are Jews, Muslims and European immigrants now fill their place . This country has always been racist , ask the children and grandchildren of the Windrush years

@Luckygirl

The public doesn't know (and maybe never will) about Mair's exact diagnosis. I agree that mental health services are woefully inadequate, but I'm not sure what could have been done unless Mair had a diagnosis indicating he was a serious risk. Sadly, services very often don't kick in until a sufferer commits a crime.

Following on from the 'lecture' given to me by a previous poster, my sister worked at Ashworth, one of the three secure psychiatric hospitals in the country. She was also a director of community services for many years. From the accounts of Mair given by his neighbours, he behaved 'normally'. If that's the case and he hadn't told anybody about his intentions to murder, there would have been no reason to section him. The UK doesn't lock people up just because they seem a bit 'odd'. I have no doubt his medical records will be scrutinised by lawyers in the months to come, but they might not ever become public.

There seems little doubt that Mair killed Jo Cox, so we will have to wait for the defence. It could be manslaughter or his lawyers could try diminished responsibility. The magistrate has ordered a psychiatric assessment, which will probably take months. One way or the other, he will probably spend the rest of his life in a secure environment. Mair himself might not agree to a plea of insanity, because he might want his actions to be seen as rational.

Meanwhile, anybody who spouts an extreme ideology should take on the responsibility that there will always be Mairs in the community, who might take the rhetoric to its ultimate conclusion.

Jo Cox described her self as "a proud Yorkshire lass" and I'm sure she also loved our country but that pride did not turn her into a British Nationalist - quite the opposite. She was an internationalist who reached out to others with a love and compassion which was inclusive, not exclusive.

Nationalism of the type espoused by the BNP and others who may have inspired her assassin is a corruption of patriotism. It is divisive and utterly evil. We should not forget that Hitler managed to get elected by promising to make Germany great again - and look where that led.

We should learn from Jo's example. It is not too late.

If this man is unstable it's sad he will spend his life in jail because he believed the vile beliefs of Britain First and Farage

Actually I think you are spot on there jing she said that there. As one of the last things she said was that without the ability to formulate policy she could do better elsewhere.

Annie - I of course share your concern that my GC should not grow up in a world of hate. But I also think that, while there are high profile cases of acts of hate and organisations with hatred at their heart, there is a high degree of tolerance in our society in general. To give an example: when I think back to my young days, a black person was treated with suspicion and curiosity - now black people are on the TV, in films (not just as slaves!); they are football heroes, authors, professors etc. - they are visible and accepted - my DC and GC make no distinctions between people of different ethnic extraction and the whole issue is a non-issue for them and millions of others.

Whilst we will all deprecate the minority of racists that are in our midst, it would be wrong not to celebrate these positive changes in our society.