Labour MP Jo Cox shot in Birstall

Just read that. It seems pretty clear that in Mair's mind the murder was politically motivated.

If he wasn't considered sane enough to plead, he would not have been in court today charged with her murder.

Merlot, you said that Anniebach sounded as if she was creating plenty of hate of her own.
Anniebach is a Labour supporter as you well know.
You appeared to be comparing Annie to Britain First.
I just asked if you were.
Thanks for confirming that you are not.
In that case, what are you saying? Annie doesn't hate anyone. But she does stand up for justice, like many of us.

I don't think there is any doubt as to the man's mental instability. That of course may well have made him vulnerable and easily influenced by extremist views.
I believe "terrorism" is a conscious desire to further a political aim by acts of violence against sections of society.
Whether or not he is considered sane enough to plead is not for us to conjecture at this point.

Sorry, DJ, I don't think he's sane at all.
I'm off out and away from this thread, I can't be doing with the attitudes of some of you!

I agree we should fight hate in all its forms, but I am confused as some of the comments posted on this and other threads against those supporting the Leave campaign do verge on hate.

This poor woman was killed carrying out her duties as an MP so it can be assumed her death was politically motivated, however, we don't KNOW. I prefer to think of the loss to her family of a mother and wife before I start jumping to conclusions about the motives of the person who did this.

Great post Tegan

He gave his name in court as "Death to traitors, Freedom for Britain".
Doesn't sound sane to me, but he is.

i.imgur.com/UwRMJVEm.jpg

so who is unstable, and who is a terrorist? What makes the difference? Who decides?

jugger undoubtedly. But he also sent out the strong message to fight hate. I can't look after his children, but I can fight hate, and that is what I am going to do.

Yes uses of things like the filth that was that poster is also used under the nationalists construct of nation.

I would think that the thing keeping her husband focussed is not politics, but their two small children.
Yes, she lost her life due to politics, but surely this is not the time to be placing blame at the feet of anyone except the mentally unstable man who perpetrated this appalling act.
Seriously, some of you here are showing a dreadful lack of respect.
I'm all for free speech, but there's a time and place and this is not it!

Nothing wrong with nationalism as you describe zorro- but we know from history that tipping beyond into intolerance and hatred of others is far too easy ... surely you wouldn't deny that? If we never learn from the worst events that nationalism led too- our future is bleak indeed.

I shudder for our grand-children.

Doreen Lawrence, the Labour peer whose son Stephen was killed in 1993, said there were no words that could express what it feels like to have a young person whose “life is still full of possibility, brutally snatched away from you”. Writing in the Guardian today, she says the hopes and dreams of Cox’s family had been “shredded in one foul afternoon”.

Lady Lawrence warned that a message of hatred against foreigners or people with different religions had been getting louder in the UK and US, citing Donald Trump. She criticised comments by Boris Johnson about Barack Obama’s ancestry and said a poster unveiled by Nigel Farage on Thursday was reminiscent of Nazi propaganda
..this is from someone who knows what it's like to lose a loved one. I hope it won't be misconstrued as 'propoganda'.

Exactly- the two cannot be dissociated.
As a young woman passionate about politics, I am quite sure she wouldn't have wanted them to be dissociated, as her husband made clear too.

zorro used in the benign way in which you describe your understanding of nationalism there is nothing wrong with the word, in is to be applauded particularly if it assists in the national community coming together for the greater good.

I am not using it in that sense.

Basically, nation means belonging together by birth or place of birth, and nationalism is concerned with people who are related by their place if birth. Nationalism in this sense is a socially constructed community which is to a large extent imagined by those who perceive themselves to be part of that construct (Anderson)

It is an imagined community because you can't possibly "know" everyone in that community. We have visual images such as the Union flag, or the Crown representing this nation.

So in this tradition it may be argued that nationalism should be defined as a political doctrine. For many nationalism as the objective is it achieve a mono-cultural state.

There are nationalistic groups, and the one that killed Mrs Cox is one, who work to ensure that the state includes only those who seem to belong to their definition of a nation. You could describe this as ethnic nationalism, as opposed to what you are describing which is civic nationalism.

We know what happens when this is taken to the extreme.

Politics is what is keeping her husband focused, too.
The link I gave was to her speech on Syria. The Syrian cause is important to her family and friends.

She lost her life because of her politics. You cannot divorce her political views from her death.

Well said Juggernaut. Now expect to be accused of wanting to stifle free speech!

Seems so Jen, not forgetting UKIP too

Did I say that, dj?

Of course not.

Considering that most of us on Gransnet are 'mature' people, there's a lot of childish behaviour going on.
A young mother has lost her life, a young man his wife, and two little children their mother and some of you are making this awful event into a political argument.
Yes, she was a politician, but surely we should be showing more respect than to try to use her tragic death to further our own political ideas.
In short, 'Grow Up'!

So Britain First is just an acceptable antidote to the Labour party, is that right, merlot?

our grandchildren will live in a country of hate

Hate can go both ways, anniebach. You sound as though you are creating plenty of your own.

Whoever wins there will be anger from the losing side. Remember the 'shock horror' threads on here after the last election?

We're all going to have to face the aftermath of the vote until life settles down.

And it will.

Good luck, JessM.

This is why Jo Cox's husband chose the White Helmets as one of the charities to support. The link contains her last speech in parliament.

theconversation.com/britains-moment-to-reflect-what-would-jo-cox-want-us-to-think-about-61231

This man only met her once, but followed her on social media after that meeting.