Labour MP Jo Cox shot in Birstall

I first put this on as a separate thread in an attempt to make all posters aware of the dangers. That doesn't seem to have worked so I am repeating it here on a site much engaged with this topic.
I want to make posters aware of two tweets I have just seen warning about this risk of discussing the Jo Cox murder. Yvette Cooper has retweeted tweets from David Banks and Paul Waugh highlighting the dangers. The David Banks tweet explains what contempt of court can mean. Posters on all sites are being asked not to jeopardise a fair trial by crossing a line.
David Banks Media Law explains in sufficient detail what constitutes Contempt in this case.
This is an issue close to the hearts of many posters and we all want to see a fair trial - a cornerstone of our British system and one that has appeared as a key argument in both camps. Both parties have a right to a fair trial so please read the advice.
Please note I am not attempting to stifle debate on this dreadful event but would hate posters on here who feel passionately about it to be the ones to cause the whole process to be aborted.

The night before this dreadful event, I was talking to my son about how we should listen to all points of view and argue if we disagree with all or some parts of that point of view. One poster on GN uses the word disgusting 4 times in her post about tolerance. If we reject the views of others as disgusting, those views don't get discussed and then foment fuelled only by other like minded individuals' views. I will give an example. I had a group of 16-17 year old students and we were discussing films . When someone started talking about Brokeback Mountain a Turkish lad started mouthing off about how disgusting gay men were. Two of the more articulate students stood up and said they wanted to leave the room rather than share space with such a homophobic boy. I said that all views could be aired and we talked about it. The boy was getting some very homophobic views from his dad. By talking about it we managed to redress what otherwise was a very one sided world view. We did not leave the boy feeling like some disgusting moron as that would have reinforced rather than weakened his views. Incidentally I read the Daily Mail Saturday ( best tv guide and the agony column is good) and the Guardian online intermittently. I am voting in.

Granny2016 do you think that the Breaking Point advert out out by UKIP party leaders is a demonstration of despising intolerance? Because a lot of people think it is an unscrupulous attempt to conflate the issue of EU freedom of movement with the refugee crisis (all the people in the photo appear to be middle eastern refugees) and so fuel fears about immigration in order to boost the Leave vote. If people support a party that does something like that, there is a danger that they will get tarred with the same brush as the decision makers they admire.
I'm just back from our event to remember Jo, which went well. We were discussing with our MP afterwards the fact that if this attack had been carried out by one of her Muslim constituents there would have been headlines in certain papers mentioning "terrorism" and emphasising that person's religion. But I'm not aware of any headlines saying things like "white facist accused..." or "white Christian terrorist". The press IMO behave irresponsibly, fanning fears of immigration in a most unpleasant and biased way.

The Farage poster is @36x55cm; there is a UKIP logo in the corner @ 1cm in diameter. It may be a UKIP poster but it is very misleading and you would have to look quite hard to realise that it isn't Brexit.

Granny2016, I assume you don't live in South Wales, or yourUKIP friends , the campaigning in this area is pure racism , I am sorry but I don't understand how anyone can despise intolerance but support UKIP , they are bedfellows

Yes, Bags, sorry, you are correct.
It has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred.
I presume that means that Farage has been reported to the police for inciting racial hatred.
I wonder who will take responsibility for it.

granny UKIP uses exactly the same tactics as other far right political movements, they just do so in a more "respectable" way. They have been doing so for at least 5 years. Their message is insidious and appeals to many who worry about what they experience day to day from the result of poor management by our government of housing medical and educational services.

Not every area of the U.K. Is experiencing these problems - I live in one such area.

Undoubtedly immigration has been badly managed, it needs to be prioitised by our political parties.

But the way to deal with it it not to turn to these far right groups.

@sunseeker

I suggest that the public regulates free speech through elected MPs and the judiciary. We have the power to do that by establishing a consensus of what is acceptable. You claim that hate speech is not allowed in the UK. Unfortunately, it is not challenged sufficiently and the law is not enforced. The amount of hate speech now appearing on the internet and increasingly in the mainstream media is now so great that law enforcement authorities couldn't possibly prosecute without shutting down Facebook, Twitter and many thousands of websites. Therefore, it has to be an individual responsibility to challenge it, not to tolerate any form of hatred and not turn a blind eye. It's not easy when the 'it's all PC' bullies come out of the woodwork.

Jess, so pleased it went well

dd Isn't that what we do already? If you think the laws are not strong enough you are free to petition your MP and campaign to have them strengthened. I agree that some judiciary can appear to be lenient, however, unless you are actually in the courtroom and hear all the evidence it is very difficult to judge. Unfortunately the media, of all persuasions, each have their own agendas so those who only read newspapers which reflect the views they already hold then have those views reinforced.

@anniebach

I agree with you. I drove through a town recently and spotted two Britain First BREXIT banners. I have been told by people who live there that the BREXIT campaign has been all about immigration from the start. My daughter is campaigning for Remain and has encountered a fair amount of racism.

I also agree that not all of those supporting Leave are racist, but in an either/or vote, it's wise to choose one's bedfellows carefully.

I really am sorry to go back to early 1930s Germany, but this is how Hitler seized power. The majority of Germans never voted for him in a free election and, even later, some of those in power didn't join the Nazi Party. Their intentions were more 'honorable' but they chose a very dangerous bedfellow.

I think Jo Cox understood this. Her speeches certainly indicate that she did. Maybe Mair will talk more about his motivation for what he did - maybe not. On the face of it, it seems Jo was murdered for standing up for her beliefs, which I find deeply humbling.

@sunseeker

No, it isn't what we do already. There is so much hate speech on the internet and elsewhere, it's become impossible to police. There's no point in having stronger laws if they can't be enforced.

The internet is international and it has long been admitted it is impossible to police. I was talking about UK freedom and laws.

Have you not heard of the Investigatory Powers Bill, which has just gone through parliament?
The government can now check up on all your online stuff.

"Summary of the Investigatory Powers Bill 2015-16 to 2016-17
A Bill to make provision about the interception of communications, equipment interference and the acquisition and retention of communications data, bulk personal datasets and other information; to make provision about the treatment of material held as a result of such interception, equipment interference or acquisition or retention; to establish the Investigatory Powers Commissioner and other Judicial Commissioners and make provision about them and other oversight arrangements; to make further provision about investigatory powers and national security; to amend sections 3 and 5 of the Intelligence Services Act 1994; and for connected purposes."

A comment from R4:
Many people are saying to me 'I didn't know there were people like Jo Cox in Parliament.'

Daphne, msy I be selfish? Spare a thought for me please, I have Neil Hanilton of UKIP and his wife, one time secretary to that sweet Tory MP Gerald Nabarro , to battle with, perhaps you are too young to have heard him on the BBC QT asking - would you want your daughter marrying a big,buck N****r with the prospect of coffee coloured grandchildren

Yep we have never been a racist country ! We had Nabarro now we have Farage, who claimed he couldn't get to a meeting in Wales because the immigrants caused heavy traffic on the motorway

The press don't give coverage to the many like Jo Cox , Elrel

@sunseeker

Many websites are registered abroad to avoid UK laws. However, it is possible for the government to make reading hate speech a crime, just as it does with pornography. Even then, there are millions of illegal pornographic images floating around the web. There are groups monitoring hate speech, but there is just too much of it, especially as police numbers are being cut. That's why it's up to individuals to be brave enough to challenge hate.

@ ab

I remember him. Didn't he try to get Christine Hamilton to take the blame for a traffic offence?

He lied and got one secretary to claim she was driving, he was found guilty and when he appeared in the court for his appeal he was accompanied by his private secretary Christine

DD That was Chris Huhne and his wife Vicky Price.

The Hamiltons were taking money to ask specific questions in parliament. There was also something about living the life of Riley in a Paris hotel. But I have forgotten the exact circumstances. Either way they are a couple of charmers with not an ounce of shame between them.

They would sell their grandmother if it suited them.

Jevive73 - the mark of a good teacher. Never leave a student feeling stupid or that their opinion isn't worth considering. Rather, encourage them to engage in meaningful debate and not to be afraid to change their mind as a result.

@janeainsworth

Anniebach is correct. Christine Hamilton was his personal secretary, but it was another secretary whom he tried to blame.

I remember it, because my Dad was so outraged. He was very old-fashioned about MPs and their personal values and really disliked Nabarro. My Dad was even shocked by the racist grandchildren comment.