Brexit watch

If you watched the debate yesterday, daphne, you would have seen that the MPs were saying that the country could actually set a precedent.

Your argument just shows why EU migrants do not feel welcome here any more. They should not be used as pawns in Hammond's game. What was the point of the opposition winning the debate yesterday if it meant nothing?
What was the point of them even having the debate if it meant nothing?
In the meantime, I have two EU migrants in my family who are both upset by this same attitude.
My eldest granddaughter has trained to be a teacher. After her next year, she will be moving to Spain as will my son and his Spanish wife. Her mother will be moving to the EU next year with her husband.
The Danish family haven't decided yet.

I'd better get a hard hat, because I think Hammond has a point.

Until negotiations start, I don't see how anybody can make any promises. From a practical point of view, it seems unlikely that the UK will swap its EU immigrants with UK ex-pats. The logistics and expense of the whole exercise don't bear thinking about.

However, if the UK makes an absolute promise to EU citizens that they can stay in the UK indefinitely, what happens if the EU turns round and says it doesn't want UK ex-pats and/or will stop healthcare arrangements, etc? The UK would be in an impossible bargaining position. We could end up with an extra couple of million ex-pats not able to afford property, many needing NHS care plus the immigrants who are already here OR ex-pats would end up high and dry in foreign countries.

I really hope it doesn't come to that and I hope that when negotiations start, this will be one of the first issues to be thrashed out, but until it's been formally agreed, I'm afraid I think it's a bit silly to make any promises. In the same way, the promises Leave politicians have made and are still making (Don't worry, dear, it will be alright) are premature and shouldn't be believed.

"The UK government has been under intense pressure from Conservative backbenchers and others to give a unilateral guarantee that the rights of EU migrants in the UK will not be damaged at the end of the Brexit talks.

Giving evidence to the foreign affairs select committee, Hammond again said he could not give such a commitment and blamed “Brussels bureaucrats” for declaring there could be no informal Brexit negotiations until the UK had triggered article 50, the formal process by which it notifies the EU of its intention to leave."

From the article. Is that not contempt of parliament?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/07/philip-hammond-to-hold-informal-talks-over-rights-of-eu-citizens-in-uk

Despite the vote yesterday, and the fact that all on the government except 2 agreed with EU migrants having the right to stay, Hammond is still using them as pawns in his game with the EU.

I have just seen in the local Bournemouth paper that the founders of 'Lush' are moving most of their production to mainland Europe. He says that his EU workers, which is only about a third of the workforce, feel unwanted in Poole as the area voted out. He said they will still produce in Poole but only for the UK market and all other production (which is expanding!) will move abroad - likely to be Düsseldorf. They will take any of the workers who wish to go with them.

But they still knit differently!!

WE all grew up in different times and I would like that country back which I had when I left school and you could walk the streets after dark and every one was friendly and did their gardens and dressed tidily, controlled their dogs and weren't attached to a phone.

So you see what a ridiculous statement it is! You can't get a past country back even with Brexit because the EU has influenced the Uk as we have influenced other countries.
The UK has taken over so many German ways of life. Christmas markets, fireworks at New Year Kindergartens, Blackforest Cake and the Germans make a good cup of tea and watch the queen on TV. and give the Batchelor to their university students. Its all now knitted together and you will not be able to unpick it.

Jolly good for them!

What about the loss of jobs for people in Easyjet HQ? What about the loss of taxation payable to the UK treasury?

Multiply that by all the other companies who decide to do the same and it really does become worrying.

@Tegan At 61, I'm too young for a state pension and don't even earn enough to pay my rent. I'm not eligible for housing benefit (or any other benefits either) and really really resent having to pay more for my fuel and food, because other people wanted their 'control' back (not that they'll get it). That's on top of all the other disadvantages of leaving the EU.

I'm aware of that daphnedill My point being that easy jet still believe there are enough people with enough money to enjoy some winter sun.

My pension takes me just over the tax limit so I don't have much leeway when it comes to belt tightening.

Easyjet plans to move its HQ

news.sky.com/story/easyjet-opens-talks-over-post-brexit-hq-move-10330339

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/27/foxtons-and-easyjet-issue-profits-warnings-eu-referendum

Easyjet is concerned about leaving the EU.

atwonline.com/government-affairs/brexit-triggers-easyjet-seek-another-aoc

@POGS

Why should the almost half of the country which voted Remain pay for other people's 'principles' with belt-tightening?

I don't think that easy jet are too worried about the economy. They have just opened a new route to the Canary Islands ( for the winter) from my local airport ( southend)

Well that's a point petra - mainly I'm confused!

Lucky old you, Anya

And three of the new GPs are British

But how can it be the governments fault suzied when I've just pointed out that our GP practice has expanded (actually doubled) ? And schools here are extending, adding new classrooms, a whole new primary has been built and others are planned.

I do accept that successive governments have probably not planned for additional home-trained GPS, but we have managed (somehow) to recruit an extra 4, so I'm wondering how?

I think that history shows that many wars actually come about as the result of breakdowns of unions Yugoslavia, Etc. All unions reach a point where unless the bonds are mutually acceptable and very strong, schisms and factions are likely to occur, this even within religions, that is not to say that the demise of the EU would result in conflict, either all may revert to independent trading nations or will combine into smaller areas of cooperation.

I hope you mean multi-racial there anya, yes multi racial areas more tolerant of migrants than other areas. I live in a diverse area and it's what we are used to. It doesn't seem threatening. It's the government's fault that there are too few school places and doctors are leaving in droves, NOT immigrants!

Multi-racist hey ;) I wouldn't like to live there for sure

Was pleasantly surprised when I rang for a GP appointment (non urgent) to get one within three days. Visited the practice today to find they've taken on four new (youngish) GPs.

I appreciate that certain areas are finding it much harder to recruit staff than others. But I live in a multi-racist town, in the West Midlands (that incidentally bucked the trend down here and voted remain) and which has experienced a big influx of immigrants.

The UK has not been training enough medical staff for years. DD worked for a medical recruitment company and they have terrible trouble recruiting doctors. Whatever changes Hunt has made even more are leaving to work in other countries and last week a Dutch doctor withdrew his application for a job in UK and there is a general slowing down of applications since the vote.
Students starting in Seotember may not finish their degree before Brexit happens - too worrying for them.

I see wht you are getting at.
But the stuff I think will happen, has already been talked about in quite some detail, and was on the cards.

I think, as far as Britain is concerned, we are a lot less likely toexperience war now.

As regards personal finances, some belt tightening may be necessary in the short term. But I think you will agree, that most households can manage a little belt-tightening, short term, without much suffering.

Obie; isn't being scared of 'what they will become'on a par with Project Fear but even less likely to happen (at least, it was until two weeks ago).And yet, were being criticised for worrying about what will happen to our finances...some of which is already happening. Isn't logical to me. My absolute biggest fear is that this has set the wheels in motion for conflict in Europe...something the EU was partly there to prevent. My daughter, who teaches history is as worried as I am.