Being blamed

Sorry, ceesnan, but your post about farmers is so ludicrous, it just shows the lies you have been fed.

Are you aware that there is an antibiotic crisis in the whole world, because of the antibiotics fed routinely to farmed animals? The EU will soon be the least of our concerns if someone does not find new antibiotics soon and not use them on animals.

There must be an awful lot of farmers breaking the law, if they are only allowed to use three crops. Are you by any chance talking about organic crop rotation, which aims for land to be divided into four and allowing one quarter to be left fallow each year?

Please can you give us your sources for these claims.

@ Luckygirl

I'm a bit baffled why you think that the UK is a small nation within the EU. From a mainland European view, it's recognised as a major player, although UKIP MEPs are a standing joke.

How many people know that British farmers receive £2.5-3 billion from the EU a year?

How would you suggest treating organic stock? If it's pumped full of antibiotics, it's not organic.

Which three crops are permitted in the UK? Strangely enough, I can look out of my window as I'm typing this and see more than three crops. If they're not permitted, maybe I should be ringing an EU hotline.

Do you know how many British farmers will go bankrupt without subsidies?

British companies are already free to trade outside the EU. It's up to the importing country to set the tariffs. Why do you think they'll be more generous towards the UK outside the EU? Approximately 50% of the UK's exports go to the UK. How much extra do you think it's going to cost in red tape to export? Have you any idea how much extra our imports will cost?

I read in a French newspaper today that French businessmen are glad to get rid of the 'sweatshop' of Europe and are confident that investment will now be directed to mainland Europe.

I agonised over this decision. I avoided the big showpiece debates and programmes as they were so extreme and illogical; but I read everything I could lay my hands on and did my best to digest what I read.

A few weeks before the vote I had decided not to vote at all, because I felt (and feel) that the referendum was undemocratic, that the majority of the population would not understand the economics (and how could they? - it is a highly specialised subject), that we were being sold lies, and that the motivation to hold the referendum at all was led by party political matters, not the national interest.

I then went back on this decision as I could not bring myself not to take part in something that people had died to achieve - universal suffrage.

In the end I voted out (ducks below parapet) and these were my reasons:

- I really do think that the EU treats us with contempt. Shortly before the referendum DC went to try and get some concessions and was more or less sent away with a flea in the ear, in spite of the fact that Brussels knew the referendum was coming up and DC needed to bring something back to allay people's concerns.
- we have always been on the periphery of the EU, in but not quite in, carping about the decisions of the "club", bobbing back and forth with failed attempts to achieve change. I feel that we either have to be in wholeheartedly (which we never have been)or we have to get out.
- I do not think the systems within the EU favour small nations who wish to state their case and make the EU fit their needs better - we have too little influence.
- when I voted to be in the Common Market I, and many others, did not expect to finish up as part of an organisation that has strayed so far from its original brief as a trade consortium. The EU is pushing the boundaries of its influence beyond what many people feel is reasonable or democratic; it is certainly way way off what we signed up for.
- I believe that the EU is now too big and unwieldy; and it is considering becoming even bigger. Not only does it make decision making rather ponderous and inflexible, but I do not think that is a healthy way to try and ensure world peace. Large blocks (US, China, Russia,the EU) all jostling for position feels dangerous to me.
- adding too many nations to the EU has caused a lot of problems - see Greece. The idea that Turkey with its dreadful human rights record) might even be in the running at all is very worrying. More members means slower decision making and more dissatisfied members, as such a large group cannot meet the needs of everyone.
- England is a small island nation (no - I am not a little Englander - just stating a fact) and islands have a very singular mindset. The issue of immigration (no - I am not a xenophobe) impinges in a particular way for this country. The government has ignored the concerns of poor and disadvantaged people in our country and not listened to them - this is one of the reasons the vote went the way it did. If your children are trying to find housing and jobs and you see a European immigrant who has been more fortunate in this regard, then you are going to be pissed off - and the government has let this wash by them for a long time and is now paying the price. It is all very well to say that the issue of immigration is a great deal more subtle than that, but if you are lacking advantages in life or a decent education, then that does not wash.

I feel very unhappy about the whole scenario - in the end I could not bring myself not to vote, but I knew that whichever way the vote went a rough ride was ahead because of the very close margin by which one "side" would win. The simple fact of the referendum was going to be divisive to the nation and to lead to political turmoil and recriminations.

The referendum should never have happened. Shame on you Cameron.

What a sorry time this is for us all.

Whitewave and Daphnedill both asked me what change I wanted. I mentioned in a previous post the fact that British companies are penalised if they trade outside the EU but my main concern is the way our farmers are treated. How many of you knew that they are fined if their gateways are too wide, their hedges too high or a poster is not adequately displayed. They are only allowed to grow three types of crops, MUST leave 7acres unused. They can only use homeopathic remedies on their stock regardless of suffering inflicted. By leaving it means the NFU can lobby our own government, not someone in Brussels. The CAP was always heavily weighted towards other countries, now we have a chance of a decent outcome.

So why did you vote as you did, grandMattie?

I agree with you that the Remain campaign was pathetic. I have been pro-EU all my adult life and I wanted to scream at them about the advantages.

I haven't a clue why so few young people voted and am very disappointed in them. I know my own 18 year old son and 23 year old daughter voted.

I am tired of the Leavers being represented xenophobic, cretinous, credulous little Englanders. I for one spent many weeks agonising what would be the best way to vote.
I think the Remains were so certain of their position that they didn't make it very clear what the advantages of remaining would be as opposed to the disadvantages.
Finally, if the young were so keen on staying IN, why oh why didn't they take up their democratic rights and vote. They shouldn't whinge now.

I voted for remain as I too thought of the next generation and also foresaw the turmoil of our weak polititians . Unfortunately only 24% of the next generation (under 25s) voted as they couldn't be bothered to get off their X boxes and vote. They were told the older generation were the highest percentage voters, so no excuse there.

Hi I am more worried than offended by the reporting that older people voted leave as a greater percentage of their age group. It sets up discord and potential discrimination. If you read the research it says that people over 50 were more likely to vote leave, but much more significantly it says that younger people are less likely to vote at all. So the answer is get young people to wake up to politics and to vote!

As approx 75% of mps wanted to remain, they are going to make life very hard for the little englanders in parliament. I think they will be "pressed" into submission.

Two of my three MEPs represented me, and still do, until they are made redundant. The third is a Ukipper who rarely attends.

Other people (the bullies) voted for me to be not represented.

We can all pull together once Bojo, Gove and Farage go ahead with the promises (lies) made- I insist the 350 mio per week starts pouring into the coffers of the NHS NOW- or at least by next month - because this promise is what 1000s voted upon.

Exactly- so many people who say 'being ruled by Brussels' don't even know who their MEPs are- and, as you say, didn't bother to vote to elect them. ?!?! Or, who voted for people like Farage, who has been pickin up their excellent MEP salary but have not attended, nor have they sat on the Commissions they were elected to to make a difference- in his case the Fisheries commission, whilst complaining that UK fishermen are getting a raw deal. The hypocrisy is screamingly tragic.

I did vote and I'm not complaining that they're unelected. It's a shame three of the seven are UKIP and don't bother doing anything, so it's fair to say I'm only partly represented.

Just saw this - may lighten the mood a bit!

And here is a list of the MEPs for your region - with links to their contact details. www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps.html

Anyone who threw the notification of the last MEP election into the recycling bin, can hardly complain that they are unelected.

My immediate family voted remain. Unfortunately my 17 year old daughter just missed being eligible for the vote. I am most disgusted about the fact that she had no say in her future.

My parents voted leave. Their grandchildren feel alienated.

Just seen your answer and the replies. The UK IS a sovereign state and isn't ruled by faceless bods. The rules for electing MEPs is more democratic than the UK Parliament and always has been. Nobody is forcing the UK to accept any laws against its wishes. Sorry, that's a myth. This isn't bullying, just telling you some facts.

Yes, we've been left in limbo by campaigners who lied to the public and don't have any plans.

Why did you vote to leave? You must have had some idea what you were voting for. You need to hold the people who promised you something better to account.

I can remember back in the days when we were the sick man of Europe the mantra was buy British. Then we joined the single market and our economy took off and we could shop where we liked with all that choice. So no thank you I don't want to go back to necessarily buying British again, only if I think it is what I want and good value.

We can all work together when this Ref. becomes an actuality.
People seem to think it is a done deal. It is not. There are strong forces working to annul it or water it down. The people were asked for an opinion, not to make a law!

Maggie, I really think someone should step forward with some positive plans. David Cameron should have stayed as PM for longer to help out (don't forget he would have led us out at one time). We've been left in limbo, which is very disconcerting.

It's shameful for loutish behaviour like that, it is embarrassing for the country.

Of course we should band together and make it work, nanasam. The decision's made and we all have to make the best of it, there's no choice in the matter. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm not bullying, I'd genuinely like to hear what I can do as an individual. What do you think we should be doing? The only suggestion I've seen so far is that we should all buy British. When it's an affordable choice I already do.

But when you talk of bullying... What sort of country are we now when someone walking with his family along an English prom is happy and proud to be interviewed on national TV sporting a tee shirt bearing our flag and the slogan "Fit in or fuck off", as a man was last night?

whitewave, I'm beginning to think that way. If I'd known all this nastiness would be so rife I would probably been bullied into voting Remain.

Beammeupscottie your 'No' attitude could be the death of Britain if you are hell bent on refusing to accept the democratic vote.